Unintended +3 to hit (questionable phrasing?) SOLVED: p275

[loisel]

EDIT: Proficiency bonus doesn't add to Implement keywords. p.275 reads "You gain the proficiency bonus only when using powers that have the weapon keyword."

Wizard of the Spiral Tower, Corellon's Implement (11th level): Choose an arcane implement that you specialize in, whether the wand, staff, or orb. You can use a longsword as if it were that type of arcane implement when casting your spells.

Weapon proficiency: (p219) Proficiency with a weapon gives you a proficiency bonus to attack rolls, which appears in this column if applicable.

It reads to me like you're getting a +3 to hit on your spells if you're proficient with longsword. What's interesting about this is that spells target ref/fort/will, which does not benefit from armor. The weapon proficiency bonus is usually what you need to make AC equal to ref/fort/will and overcome the armor bonus. For this reason, I'm not sure whether this is as intended.

 

[Sphyre]

I don't have the books yet, nor the pdf, but when using an implement to use a power don't you only add the enhancement bonus to hit and damage? It has to have a WEAPON keyword in the power to get the proficiency bonus to hit (or be a basic melee/ranged attack), does it not?

 

[Zsig]

You don't get the prof. bonus.

You can see that by looking at the Holy Avenger or the Pact Blade.

Also, similarly, you don't get a prof bonus when you use a Staff (Staff and Quarterstaff kinda works interchangeable). If you use a Staff (wizard's implement) as a melee weapon you DO get it's prof as a bonus to your melee attacks (the ones with the Weapon Keyword).

 

[loisel]

I don't have the books yet, nor the pdf, but when using an implement to use a power don't you only add the enhancement bonus to hit and damage? It has to have a WEAPON keyword in the power to get the proficiency bonus to hit (or be a basic melee/ranged attack), does it not?

Like I say, I think they didn't mean to give +3 to hit with spells, but I can't find anywhere that says what you say. I haven't seen anywhere that lists which bonuses apply when you have the WEAPON keyword, and which bonuses don't apply when you lack the WEAPON keyword.

 

[Nine Hands]

Well since the text says that your longsword behaves like a Implement of the appropriate type and Implements specifically note that they apply the enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls with spells, I don't see where you can justify the additional +3 bonus from the longsword.

Additionally the Holy Avenger mentions this same fact on page 234 of the PHB.

 

[Nifft]

Weapon proficiency: (p219) Proficiency with a weapon gives you a proficiency bonus to attack rolls, which appears in this column if applicable.

Nope, sorry. Only for powers with the Weapon keyword.

Cheers, -- N

 

[loisel]

You don't get the prof. bonus.

You can see that by looking at the Holy Avenger or the Pact Blade.

Good catch. I think they forgot to put that boilerplate in the spiral tower blurb.

 

[loisel]

Nope, sorry. Only for powers with the Weapon keyword.

Do you have a page number?

 

[Nifft]

Do you have a page number?

Pages 55 (last paragraph), continuing into page 56.

Cheers, -- N

 

[malraux]

Pages 55 (last paragraph), continuing into page 56.

Cheers, -- N

I would recommend 275, as its specifically addresses that weapons proficiency only applies to weapon keywords. Absent that, I'd agree with the OP that proficiency bonuses apply to attacks that your implement apply to.