Unmodified Skill Points

[DanMcS]

Why not just give classes a static number of skill points per level, rather than X + Int Modifier? Perhaps all classes get X+2/level, where X is whatever their static number is now. Maybe give wizards 6 or 8 instead of 4, since they normally are the class that gets the most, skillwise, from a high int. Humans still get +1 per level as normal.

Mutants and Masterminds, in both incarnations, works this way, really- int doesn't give skill points, you just buy them with power points. Do any other games?

Pros:
- Easier to calculate skill points/level, particularly for classes like the wizard which tend to have higher int mods every so many levels.
- Removes some of the Multiple Ability Dependance of some classes. Monks and rogues particularly benefit, I'd think, though almost anybody gets some benefit.
- Up-powers some of the other stats, comparatively- strength doesn't normally give you skill points towards athletic skills, nor dex for agility skills, but int bonus both works for knowledge skills, and gives you skill points. Now intelligence just gives you natural aptitude for knowledges.

Cons:
- Removes some MAD from some classes. Rogues can pull some out of int into dex, con, whatever they want, really, and still have plenty of skill points.

Might want to put in a feat that let people buy skill ranks, maybe 4 or so.

 

[Crothian]

Why not just give classes a static number of skill points per level, rather than X + Int Modifier? Perhaps all classes get X+2/level, where X is whatever their static number is now. Maybe give wizards 6 or 8 instead of 4, since they normally are the class that gets the most, skillwise, from a high int. Humans still get +1 per level as normal.

Mutants and Masterminds, in both incarnations, works this way, really- int doesn't give skill points, you just buy them with power points. Do any other games?

Not that I've seen, but M&M is more a of a point system then a level system so is not what I feel is a good example of this

Pros:
- Easier to calculate skill points/level, particularly for classes like the wizard which tend to have higher int mods every so many levels.

Maybe I'm a math snob but if this is causeing the player trouble perhaps they should consider going to school to learn addition instead of playing the game.

- Removes some of the Multiple Ability Dependance of some classes. Monks and rogues particularly benefit, I'd think, though almost anybody gets some benefit.
- Up-powers some of the other stats, comparatively- strength doesn't normally give you skill points towards athletic skills, nor dex for agility skills, but int bonus both works for knowledge skills, and gives you skill points. Now intelligence just gives you natural aptitude for knowledges.

I think the idea of MAD is sometrhing that really doesn't exist. The second one is a stretch of a reason I say.

Cons:
- Removes some MAD from some classes. Rogues can pull some out of int into dex, con, whatever they want, really, and still have plenty of skill points.

Might want to put in a feat that let people buy skill ranks, maybe 4 or so.

Again, I don't see the MAD. But the one con that you completely missed is it makes Int worthless. Int under this rule becomes a dumb stat for everyone except wizards and maybe bards.

THere is a feat in Complete Adventure that gives 5 skill points. And in case you can't tell I don't think this is a really good idea. But just giving all classes 2 more skill points per level is not out of line.

 

[Blue]

If you do this, and you're not a wizard, what use would Intelligence be? Right now it's an interesting stat because it has meaning - what you propose takes that away. You can't have the military genius - high Int giving lots of skills that help figure things out. Heck, even a noble fighter with all of the court skills.

All this does is remove exceedingly simple math (addition of two small numbers) that happens once every couple of sessions, in exchange for losing out on having smart or stupid make a difference to a PC (or to an NPC for DMs). It's not MAD, it's havign teh stat have any meaning whatsoever except if you are from the Wizard class.

Cheers,
Blue

 

[ThirdWizard]

All stats generally mean something regardless of class.

Str is encumberance.
Dex is armor class and Reflex saves.
Con is Fortitude saves.
Int is skill points.
Wis is Will saves.
Cha is... um... *cough*

Think of it as a mechanical benefit for those that want to play intelligent PCs. If I want to play a wise PC, I get the side benefit of high will saves. If I want to play an intelligent character, I get the side benefit of a few more skill points. It's a bit of extra incentive for designing your character's stats based on how you want the character to be.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

All stats generally mean something regardless of class.

Str is encumberance.
Dex is armor class and Reflex saves.
Con is Fortitude saves.
Int is skill points.
Wis is Will saves.
Cha is... um... *cough*

Think of it as a mechanical benefit for those that want to play intelligent PCs. If I want to play a wise PC, I get the side benefit of high will saves. If I want to play an intelligent character, I get the side benefit of a few more skill points. It's a bit of extra incentive for designing your character's stats based on how you want the character to be.

If I want to play an intelligent PC, I get the benefit of bonus languages (which essentially constitutes a skill point double dip at first level) a chance at an untrained knowlege check on any subject, and an entire fighting style feat chain unavailable otherwise. Still beat Cha hands down.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Str is encumberance.
Dex is armor class and Reflex saves.
Con is Fortitude saves.
Int is skill points.
Wis is Will saves.
Cha is... um... *cough*

DEX is also initiative, CON is also HP. It's all very skewed, as written. Personally, I think they should have made save DC for all casters be based on their CHA instead of their "primary" stat, and IMC we have each save depend on two stats (Fort = STR and CON, Ref = DEX and INT, Will = WIS and CHA). But the mental stats are at a big disadvantage, and I'd remove AC from DEX and HP from CON long before I remove the skill points from INT.

The argument that INT-heavy people get double-duty on Knowledge is a pretty weak argument, since those skills are so rarely used; I'd be much more worried if the double-dipping was on something useful like Use Magic Device or Open Lock. If you're really concerned about this, just change Knowledge to a WIS-based skill. Removing the skill bonus from INT basically makes it worthless to non-arcane types.

 

[Baragos]

Also it would nerf the half-orc completely.

As it is half-orcs take -2 on a dump stat and -2 on an "important" stat, while gaining +2 to a very important stat...drop int bonus to skill points and all half-orcs will be running around with Int 3 and Cha 1...

 

[Thia Halmades]

Actually, I side with RAW on this one. I wouldn't touch it at all. While I concede that using all stats for saves is a good idea if you want to do it, RAW is built to be simple. Simple is one stat.

And CHA rules if you want some of the more interesting classes, look at it that way. Anyway. Knowledge skills are HUGE in my campaign, to the point where we tried to fix the skill system. It is rather limited and broken. We failed, miserably, because any fix (as was pointed out earlier) detracts from the point of having INT anyway. Stick with RAW on this. If skills are as important to your game as they are to mine, you'll be better off making them a commodity and forcing the PCs to really think, as well as having cool excuses to introduce Expert NPCs.

LCpt. Thia Halmades

 

[Staffan]

Cha is... um... *cough*

IMC, Charisma bonus adds to (or subtracts from) action points.

 

[Dimwhit]

I like this, but I would come up with another important fuction for INT in its place.

The problem I have with the current system is that, for example, fighters are screwed. They already have too many stats they need (STR, DEX, CON) that INT is usually a dump stat.This means that fighters have nothing as far as skills when that shouldn't be the case.

I mean, really, what does INT have to do with being able to jump or swim well. Or to intimidate. Or any one of a number of things. Classes like the fighter get hosed considerably when INT determines how 'skilled' they are.