WotC Unpopular Opinion: WotC is the Bethesda of RPG Companies

[Xenonnonex]

I still say that they need to start playtesting lore, the mechanics are good, it's the lore they are starting to mess up at times.

Lore though is entirely preference based. How do you playtest lore with those who have never even heard of the lore?
Lore is also something you could use in your own games or you could use your own lore and "official" lore does not matter. With mechanics that is another matter.

 

[gyor]

Lore though is entirely preference based. How do you playtest lore with those who have never even heard of the lore?
Lore is also something you could use in your own games or you could use your own lore and "official" lore does not matter. With mechanics that is another matter.

I'm talking setting based lore so it fits and functions properly with previous lore. As I as sad a perfect example of this as a problem is MTOFs. Lore wise many parts contradict either itself or mix generic lore snd FR lore in ways that don't mean sense with previous lore. Shadar Kai is a prime example of this, they make no effort at proving guidance on how to weave the new Shadar Kai lore in with previous lore for setting like FR or Nentir Vale and they add a version of the Raven Queen that is radically different from Dawn Pantheon into FR and no mention of Shar or Netheril. What a huge mess if you want the pieces to fit. Not all lore has to be play tested, just radical changes or interruptations of lore.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I'm talking setting based lore so it fits and functions properly with previous lore. As I as sad a perfect example of this as a problem is MTOFs. Lore wise many parts contradict either itself or mix generic lore snd FR lore in ways that don't mean sense with previous lore. Shadar Kai is a prime example of this, they make no effort at proving guidance on how to weave the new Shadar Kai lore in with previous lore for setting like FR or Nentir Vale and they add a version of the Raven Queen that is radically different from Dawn Pantheon into FR and no mention of Shar or Netheril. What a huge mess if you want the pieces to fit. Not all lore has to be play tested, just radical changes or interruptations of lore.

I see the clash with previous lore as a feature rather than a bug. Now I have never previously run a lore heavy campaign or one where resolution depended on lore but conflicts in the lore could be an interesting plot point.

 

[gyor]

I see the clash with previous lore as a feature rather than a bug. Now I have never previously run a lore heavy campaign or one where resolution depended on lore but conflicts in the lore could be an interesting plot point.

Depends on whether you have a Stat Linear Setting like FR, Eberron, & Star Wars or a Dynamic Morphic Non Linear setting like Star Trek, Stargate, Andromedaverse, and Doctor Whoverse. The key difference is if the setting does have alot of time travel, up to a point one would expect alot of paradoxes to be present that would be consistant with the cosmology. But FR for example doesn't have much time travel. So no reason for major in setting paradoxes compared to Star Trek and Doctor Who.

Now you can make plot point out of major lore clashes, but if the clash is major enough the Devs need to do that work or it damages the emersion in a setting.

An example again is the Shadar Kai in MTOFs which so much confusion most Realm sages I consulted concidered the Elf section of the Lore nearly unusable.

You don't need to mess things up to create plot points and is plenty to begin with.

 

[ChaosOS]

Lore-wise the more I hear the more I'm convinced Eberron has gotten out lucky. No timeline advancement means old books are still good, Keith has don a ton to shepherd the setting, and the biggest changes in 4e (Baator) got reverted. For pete's sake the biggest controversy has been the dragonmarks

 

[UngainlyTitan]

@gyor In general I am not a fan of lore, I find that the more lore there is the more likely that there are holes and contradictions. It is, one of the things I really like about the lore as done in 5e, it is presented by in game chroniclers, which can be considered inherently unreliable.
In effect, I find have often found past lore unconvincing and immersion breaking. So Ones mileage can vary and I really like the elf lore in MTOF. As for Shadar Kai, I an not a fan and do not use them.

I may still allow a player to play one. My general position, to players, I use the published adventures, I set then in a loose version of FR but not to assume that any specific bit of Realms lore that they know is necessarily true in my version.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I should add, that I view lore as part of the palette of tools at the DMs disposal and I see no reason for the developers to resolve contradictions in the lore.

 

[gyor]

@gyor In general I am not a fan of lore, I find that the more lore there is the more likely that there are holes and contradictions. It is, one of the things I really like about the lore as done in 5e, it is presented by in game chroniclers, which can be considered inherently unreliable.
In effect, I find have often found past lore unconvincing and immersion breaking. So Ones mileage can vary and I really like the elf lore in MTOF. As for Shadar Kai, I an not a fan and do not use them.

I may still allow a player to play one. My general position, to players, I use the published adventures, I set then in a loose version of FR but not to assume that any specific bit of Realms lore that they know is necessarily true in my version.

That doesn't help those of us whose primary interest is the lore.

 

[generic]

That doesn't help those of us whose primary interest is the lore.

Everyone should get a bit of what they want, including good lore. Those who don't like lore can just ignore it. Those who do like lore can't do the reverse unless there's good lore.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

Im not surprised that in an age of oversaturation by iconoclasts the perceived value in lore has been severely depreciated. For the record this is said neither as a positive of negative criticism. Just observing my own lack of surprise.