Unsatisfied with the D&D 5e skill system

[James Crane]

I'd like to take this time to say I miss non-weapon proficiencies from 2e. It assumed not everyone knew how to read and write, which I like? It was a little now exacting, perhaps to the point of being a little bloated. One thing I noticed when I used it with 5E players is they liked the way it filled out their character. They got a better idea of who they were and what they could do. They know swimming and basket weaving? There is a story there.

I'd like a system like that ported to 5E. It would the same as the current system but you'd get to choose more of them to make up for their more specialized focus.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I'd like to take this time to say I miss non-weapon proficiencies from 2e. It assumed not everyone knew how to read and write, which I like? It was a little now exacting, perhaps to the point of being a little bloated. One thing I noticed when I used it with 5E players is they liked the way it filled out their character. They got a better idea of who they were and what they could do. They know swimming and basket weaving? There is a story there.

I'd like a system like that ported to 5E. It would the same as the current system but you'd get to choose more of them to make up for their more specialized focus.

Actually, it’s already there. With a little creativity, a player can work with their DM to generate a background that is proficient in swimming and basket weaving.

 

[SkidAce]

Not sure what your looking for, but we have had a lot of success using the alternate rules in the DMG that decouple skills from a specific ability score. We have also expanded skills to include backgrounds. So if you have the "Noble" background you can make an ability check w/ proficiency for anything that relates to being a noble, even if it goes beyond the skills provided by the background.

EDIT: the emphasis with this approach is the player has to describe what their doing and how their skill or background helps them. The DM then decides if they get proficiency and what ability score to check.

Yes, we have been treating Backgrounds like Fate Aspects and allowing skill rolls based on them for a while. It seems to make sense.

"I was a farmer, can I use my proficiency on the nature check to see if the the crops are okay?" etc...

 

[Charlaquin]

Both 3E and 5E use the same basic process of play (DM describes, player declares, DM sets DC, roll if necessary). The only difference is a minor change in how those rules are presented, since 3E wanted to do the math of establishing the DC for you, and 5E just has the DM figure out an appropriate DC.

Some people read way too much into that difference of presentation, but it's safe to ignore their opinions.

The passive aggression is strong with this one.

 

[Horwath]

We reduced the number of skills for a few.

thief tools and sleight of hand were merged into Thievery, like the 4E version. You still need to have the tools(as an item) on you do disarm traps or pick locks

Animal handling was merged into Survival


Investigation was merged into Perception with few drawbacks:

You cannot find traps and hidden locks above DC10 if you do not have Thievery proficiency.

You cannot use Perception or Thievery on magic traps if you do not have proficiency in Arcana.

 

[Azzy]

Since the only way to gain more skills is with the Skilled feat, you might want to add another way to gain skills if you're going to increase the number of skills significantly.

 

[twofalls]

I can't say anything about your games because I don't know you or your game. But commonly people run or play, say, a newer version of D&D as if it is some older version of D&D and run into problems or dissatisfaction that is blamed on the newer version of the game. I did that myself when I stopped running D&D 3.5e and started running D&D 4e. It's worth thinking about that when considering house rules in my view: "Am I playing this game in the manner the current rules intend or I am bringing older approaches and methods into it that don't jive as well with this rules set?"

I'm certainly guilty of that. I'm 50, and I've run D&D games since I was 9. I have a horrible time mixing rules up between editions, and I generally think that 5e is the most elegant and well formed version of D&D ever created. I'm very story oriented and always have been, so the crunch is less important to me than the ability to spin the story and have interesting NPC interactions. That said, crunch is still necessary, we are playing a game after all, and my players are all telling me what great fun they are having, but are often stuck without ideas on how to handle difficult situations (part of it is that there is no natural leader right now in the player mix). I was hoping that a more robust skill system would encourage new ideas and help guide them a bit with regards to understanding what their characters can do. This works well in Shadowrun (my fav rpg setting), but that is a very system heavy game and the skill system doesn't translate to D&D at all.

 

[iserith]

The passive aggression is strong with this one.

And anyway sometimes minor differences in a game's fundamentals lead to big differences in the play experience.

 

[iserith]

I'm certainly guilty of that. I'm 50, and I've run D&D games since I was 9. I have a horrible time mixing rules up between editions, and I generally think that 5e is the most elegant and well formed version of D&D ever created. I'm very story oriented and always have been, so the crunch is less important to me than the ability to spin the story and have interesting NPC interactions. That said, crunch is still necessary, we are playing a game after all, and my players are all telling me what great fun they are having, but are often stuck without ideas on how to handle difficult situations (part of it is that there is no natural leader right now in the player mix). I was hoping that a more robust skill system would encourage new ideas and help guide them a bit with regards to understanding what their characters can do. This works well in Shadowrun (my fav rpg setting), but that is a very system heavy game and the skill system doesn't translate to D&D at all.

Can you share any examples of the sorts of situations with which they struggle? Maybe there are some other solutions to consider.

 

[Oofta]

I'm certainly guilty of that. I'm 50, and I've run D&D games since I was 9. I have a horrible time mixing rules up between editions, and I generally think that 5e is the most elegant and well formed version of D&D ever created. I'm very story oriented and always have been, so the crunch is less important to me than the ability to spin the story and have interesting NPC interactions. That said, crunch is still necessary, we are playing a game after all, and my players are all telling me what great fun they are having, but are often stuck without ideas on how to handle difficult situations (part of it is that there is no natural leader right now in the player mix). I was hoping that a more robust skill system would encourage new ideas and help guide them a bit with regards to understanding what their characters can do. This works well in Shadowrun (my fav rpg setting), but that is a very system heavy game and the skill system doesn't translate to D&D at all.

If people seem to be stuck I will on a fairly regular basis give them hints/nudges to move them forward. It's sometimes difficult, especially for newer gamers, to understand how much freedom they really have. So there are times when I will remind them of some breadcrumb they seem to have forgotten. Other times I'll just recap what's going on, especially if it involves something happened last session.

At other times I'll have an NPC or familiar suggest an action, or even give them a non-combat "side-kick" that can offer helpful hints now and then.

While you have to be careful with this because you don't want to play the PCs for the characters, it can be tough from behind the DM's screen to fully communicate a scene. On the other side of the screen people don't always understand what options are really available or remember details that you're super familiar with because you just prepped for the session.

Another thing I do is have a sheet where I jot down what the various skills are, to kind of jog my memory. I sometimes also make quick notes about the PC's skills and backgrounds. Not the actual numbers, just what they're proficient in. If a PC has really played up some aspect of their character, like how they love wine I'll give them advantage on checks related to wine-making or alcohol in general.

Hopefully some of this helps. I personally try to not get too caught up in detailed mechanics of skills and how people express what they are trying to do. I do try to set up an array of challenges that can have multiple solutions so I don't have 2-3 skills that are on the "go-to" list.

Good luck!