Up, up, and away? Or just away?

[Morrus]

We're talking recipes, not raw ingredients!

And as I mentioned, the Big Mac truly is a pinnacle of culinary technique!

This thread really is off track. I'll shut up now (y'know, having won and all...)

 

[Furn_Darkside]

It's a shame- we had so many problems along the way that a whole plethora of other supers books sprang up. The hardcovers (like M&M) operate in an entirely different market, so they don't affect this so much, but all those PDFs! Every week another would appear (in fact there were two in the last week, not counting 4C2F)!

I just hope one of those nice reviewer-types who get free copies would be good enough to set up a comparison between a lot of these products.

At first, I looked at this like the dwarf book flood, but unlike that- I would not be able to pick up all the books and use all of them.

Ugh, what a pickle. But, you know, better too many options (as a consumer), then too few. heh.

FD

 

[Samurai]

Is too many really better? Usually maybe, but d20s big selling point is 1 unified system. As more and more books come out, there will be many different and often conflicting rules on races, PrCs, skills, feats, spells, ship combat, autofire, vehicle rules, superpowers, etc. Want to play d20 supers? which one? We already know of at least 7 versions...M&M, Godlike, SAS d20, Foundation, 4C2F, Deeds Not Words, and Paragon...), and that is all just in this year... how about 2 or 3 years from now (or will these 7 games be enough to halt production on any more d20 supers games?) How many subjects will become taboo because of these gluts? Race and Class books are appearing from various publishers, there are tons of books on magic, at least 3 on seafaring, etc, etc... at this rate, when will the market dry up? After the 10th d20 supers game? The 12th? And how about taboo subjects with only 1 VERY good game out for it, like Spycraft? You think the next 3 companies that try a d20 spy game will succeed? Highly unlikely...

IMHO, every game line gets to the point where all the important stuff has been said. Most eventually arrive to a point when all that is even semi-useful has been said. But the sad cases don't stop there, and instead keep churning out book after book that is either a repeat of previous ones or pretty darn esoteric and unimportant. (Rifts, for instance...)

But d20 is approaching that limit faster than any game system previously because of all the competing publishers. Instead of working together so that only 1 (or at most 2) d20 supers games are created, with everyone contributing and putting out sourcebooks, scenarios, etc as part of the OGC, everyone and their grandma has their own version of the rules... no one is on the same page, and it will only lead to burnout and confusion...

 

[Psychotic Dreamer]

The only problem is if only one or two D20 Supers games were produced you would then have only those to choose from. Currently you can find the one that works best for you and your group. Most of them are being designed to use their own classes and such. Thats one of the things I really liked about 4C2F, that it could be added to any of the D20 games out there. So I personally like the fact that most companies create what they want and don't limit themselves to what the other companies are doing.

Also how would you suggest all the companies work together to make only a handful of game types so there is no overlap? At that point they all might as well just be one company. The joy of D20 is that people can pick and choose from a nice variety of ideas and use what they want. If there is nothing they like they can create their own and if its good they might even get it published.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

But d20 is approaching that limit faster than any game system previously because of all the competing publishers.

Oh, is the d20 sky still falling? I wish it would hit the ground already and stop giving people panic-attacks.

On a serious note--

Instead of working together so that only 1 (or at most 2) d20 supers games are created, with everyone contributing and putting out sourcebooks, scenarios, etc as part of the OGC,

This is still an option- the best one could gather support from the other companies.

FD

 

[Desdichado]

Samurai:
Is too many really better? Usually maybe, but d20s big selling point is 1 unified system. As more and more books come out, there will be many different and often conflicting rules on races, PrCs, skills, feats, spells, ship combat, autofire, vehicle rules, superpowers, etc. Want to play d20 supers? which one? We already know of at least 7 versions...M&M, Godlike, SAS d20, Foundation, 4C2F, Deeds Not Words, and Paragon...), and that is all just in this year... how about 2 or 3 years from now (or will these 7 games be enough to halt production on any more d20 supers games?) How many subjects will become taboo because of these gluts? Race and Class books are appearing from various publishers, there are tons of books on magic, at least 3 on seafaring, etc, etc... at this rate, when will the market dry up? After the 10th d20 supers game? The 12th? And how about taboo subjects with only 1 VERY good game out for it, like Spycraft? You think the next 3 companies that try a d20 spy game will succeed? Highly unlikely...

Actually, d20 Modern sounds an awful lot like Spycraft and it's coming out later this year. As it will be added to the SRD, that probably spells the end of the useful life of Spycraft except as an idea mine. At least, in my opinion.

Anyway, your complaint is kinda silly, I think. Too many rules? Too much confusion? Bah! Humbug! Don't get all the rules -- get the ones that appeal to you, and then use them. It's really that simple.

IMHO, every game line gets to the point where all the important stuff has been said. Most eventually arrive to a point when all that is even semi-useful has been said. But the sad cases don't stop there, and instead keep churning out book after book that is either a repeat of previous ones or pretty darn esoteric and unimportant. (Rifts, for instance...)

d20 isn't a game line, it's a generic (sorta) system. I don't see what you're point is here, unless you're willing to claim that there's no reason to publish RPG material anymore at all. If that's the case, you can join that head of the patent office in the late 1800s that wanted to close up shop because he believed everything had already been invented that was going to be...

But d20 is approaching that limit faster than any game system previously because of all the competing publishers. Instead of working together so that only 1 (or at most 2) d20 supers games are created, with everyone contributing and putting out sourcebooks, scenarios, etc as part of the OGC, everyone and their grandma has their own version of the rules... no one is on the same page, and it will only lead to burnout and confusion...

No burn-out and confusion. Instead, you get people who can find exactly what they're looking for, which keeps the d20 market vibrant much longer than would be the case for a single system published by a single publisher in a single "way things are done" type of mode.

 

[Henry]

Henry gives Morrus a virtual pimp-slap with a BK Whopper Big Mac, Heck! England gave us Simon Cowell, and that's just unforgiveable!

Seriously, I recently bought the Natural 20 Press Supers book, but have had no time yet to read it. I want it as much for a d20 supers game, as for seeing what things I could introduce to monsters and Epic Characters for my D&D games.

If I had some real cahones, I'd work up a d20 game involving real-life translations of my gaming group, and put them against the local mafia and street gangs (yes, both exist in South Carolina, just in really weird variations) for the fun of it.

 

[evil_rmf]

nope. not me. not at all. and not because I think it is a bad idea, I just have limited time and resources. I prefer swords and sorcery, followed by post apocalyptic games.

Part of this is because I prefer lower magic, grittier games. Super hero games have always appeared to be too over powered for my tastes. That's not a knock, I realize that is part of the fun, it's a matter of taste.

I used to think that they only existed to give "serious" gamers a venue to vent their munchkinisms in an evnironment that wouldn't corrupt their "serious fantasy" games. Of course now, I see them as their own genre, with their own hard-core fans, just as it should be.