Upcoming Changes to D&D Minis Line

[Stormonu]

I seriously doubt that a set with a complete monster roster for an adventure would sell at the price point point needed to make sufficient profit to be worthwhile. Unless the adventure is specifically designed to only use a handful of miniatures, anyway (128 pages of goblins and orcs all in one neat package with a bonus dragon for the final encounter!).

I imagine a short "Sunless Citadel" type adventure would hit about the $50 range, and something large like Revenge of the Giants would be well over $100!

The basic boxed sets for 3E essentially did that, though granted they came with rather limited numbers of minis and the rules and other materials to make a "complete set". Likewise, the game day delves, if I remember correctly come with all appropriate minis (though it's like a 4-encounter adventure, if I remember right).

Seeing game sets like Descent, Dragonstrike and Warhammer Quest/Heroquest, Heroscape and the aforementioned Basic Box sets, I know it is possible to pull this sort of thing off; the question is does WotC want to try their hand at them and are there enough folks willing to plunk down the money for the sets to sustain the line. Personally, I think they will if there's enough in the "box" to use the components beyond the adventure set it includes - enough tiles, minis and whatnot to reuse for other adventures.

I mean, I think the equivilant of two sets of Dungeon Tiles Set 1 & 2 and about 20-25 "common" minis, a couple boss minis and a minibook with 5-10 short adventures would be enough to tide someone over for quite a while, if reasonably priced (say $50-$75 range).

 

[Glyfair]

The basic boxed sets for 3E essentially did that, though granted they came with rather limited numbers of minis and the rules and other materials to make a "complete set".

I missed something. Which "basic box sets" are you referencing?

Likewise, the game day delves, if I remember correctly come with all appropriate minis (though it's like a 4-encounter adventure, if I remember right).

For the most part yes. However, these were promotional, and free. If WotC were to sell these I could see a lot of resistance to linking an adventure that isn't supposed to last more than 4 hours (including set up) to a miniature set that would likely run at least $20 (based on the miniatures in the ones I remember running).

Seeing game sets like Descent, Dragonstrike and Warhammer Quest/Heroquest, Heroscape and the aforementioned Basic Box sets, I know it is possible to pull this sort of thing off.

But these games aren't D&D. There is a different sort of expectation with D&D. Honestly, if these are sufficient for you than the Heroscape sets would probably be sufficient

I mean, I think the equivilant of two sets of Dungeon Tiles Set 1 & 2 and about 20-25 "common" minis, a couple boss minis and a minibook with 5-10 short adventures would be enough to tide someone over for quite a while, if reasonably priced (say $50-$75 range).

2 sets of Dungeon tiles would be about $20. Set of 20-25 common miniatures would be about $20. A couple of boss miniatures, probably about $10 or slightly less (depending on the size and detail of the creatures). Book with 5-10 short adventures would probably be about $10 (the cost of the Dragonborn book). A set of dice (you know these would be included), probably $10. PC miniatures and stat cards (pretty likely WotC would include them in this sort of product) would be another $10. A discount for packaging them together and I can see WotC getting this out for $75 or slightly less.

That being said, I doubt demand would be enough for that price point. Your only target would be DMs who want everything in the set. The common miniatures would be a huge sticking point with many. DMs who use a lot of miniatures already have lots of the common miniatures. Even a unique sculpt (very unlikely, as that adds a lot more to the cost of production) wouldn't draw them in. It will also cut out much of the "I don't use canned adventures" crowd. After you cut out those turned off by the price point, you don't have a lot of demand left for that specific product. You would likely have to move the price point up further (closer to $100 I would imagine).

 

[Echohawk]

I imagine a short "Sunless Citadel" type adventure would hit about the $50 range, and something large like Revenge of the Giants would be well over $100!

I think that's being far, far too optimistic. The revised version of H1: Keep on the Shadowfell would need more than 140 miniatures, assuming that you want enough to differentiate between the different varieties of kobold/goblin/hobgoblin.

[sblock]
10 Kobold Minions
Kobold Slinger
3 Kobold Dragonshields
3 Kobold Skirmishes
Kobold Wyrmpriest
Kobold Slink
2 Kobold Denwardens
Irontooth
2 Guard Drakes
4 Human Rabble
Agrid, Gnome Skulk
Kalarel's Spectral Apparition
Rat Swarm
3 Goblin Sharpshooters
5 Goblin Warriors
Hobgoblin Torturer
3 Goblin Bombardiers
8 Goblin Cutters
Balgron the Fat
12 Zombie Rotters
4 Zombies
2 Skeleton Warriors
12 Decrepit Skeletons
Sir Keegan, Skeleton Knigh
13 Giant Rats
Ochre Jelly
6 Kruthik Hatchlings
3 Kruthik Young
Kruthik Adult
Blue Slime
2 Gravehounds
Ninaran, Elf Archer
4 Hobgoblin Soldiers
5 Hobgoblin Grunts
Deathjump Spider
Hobgoblin Archer
Hobgoblin Warcaster
The Warchief
Gelatinous Cube
2 Corruption Corpses
Ghoul
Kalarel's Clay Scout
5 Vampire Spawn Fleshrippers
Orcus Underpriest
2 Orcus Berserkers
Dark Creeper
Kalarel, Scion of Orcus
8 Skeleton Sentinels
Shallowgrave Wight
[/sblock]

You could probably reduce that to about 100 by using the same kobold minis for different types of kobolds, and so forth, but 100 is probably the lower limit if you want enough minis to cover all of the encounters in the adventure.

I can't see a boxed set of 100 minis, plus the printed adventure and maps selling at anything less than US$100 on a good day, and that's for a 71 page adventure with only three encounters with large creatures. I think that a boxed set including minis for something like Revenge of the Giants which is 160 pages, and contains lots and lots of huge minis is going to be closer to US$500 than US$200.

 

[S'mon]

You can have random, or you can have cheap "army men" quality, or you can pay a lot more....those appear to be our choices given the technology we have today.

IMO there is a big gap in the market for 30mm plastic fantasy minis of "cheap army man" quality. The only ones I know of are the em-4 unpainted plastic orcs and dwarves - no humans. WoTC after-market commons partially fill this gap, but still cost over twice (in the UK*) as much as the 20 pence an em-4 plastic orc costs, or packs of 50 at 15p each.

*I did get some very cheap from auggies last time I was in the US; 20 cents per troglodyte brawler was very nice.

That's definitely one thing I would like - packs of 30-50 really cheap human men-at-arms, human bandits/pirates, orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, zombies and skeletons, maybe elves & dwarves, maybe gnolls, bugbears and even ogres. In the 3e era these wouldn't see much use, but 4e's minion rules have really changed things. And these can be marketed to wargamers as well as D&Ders.

 

[S'mon]

The after market exists because they can make a lot of minis and sell them for cheap, so the aftermarket can sell them for cheap. If reaper was making a killing, someone else would be coming in and underselling them.

When I visited the US last April, I got Reaper to deliver me 8 of their prepainted plastic 'Ogre Chief' minis (plus 1 Troll, likewise) - they cost a few $ each, but cheaper and I think much better quality than the small number of WoTC ogre figures available. They had some prepainted plastic orc mooks too, but the WoTC after-market ones are cheaper and some are decent quality.

 

[MerricB]

When I visited the US last April, I got Reaper to deliver me 8 of their prepainted plastic 'Ogre Chief' minis (plus 1 Troll, likewise) - they cost a few $ each, but cheaper and I think much better quality than the small number of WoTC ogre figures available. They had some prepainted plastic orc mooks too, but the WoTC after-market ones are cheaper and some are decent quality.

See my sig. Reaper has chosen to not have a "Large Range" of their prepainted minis.

Cheers!

 

[El Mahdi]

deleted

 

[Chris Knapp]

While a boxed set of mini's designed to complement a specific adventure (or AP) would be neat, I agree that it would be too expensive. If they broke it up into sets, as in, for adventure X, you need the following mini sets:
Goblin pack 1
Goblin pack 2
Orc pack 1
Undead pack 2
Dungeon Classics pack 3
and 1 large white dragon single.

This would allow other adventures to also also use Goblin 1 or Orc 1, while adding different sets as necessary, reducing the duplicates you'd get after buying different full boxed sets.

 

[Dausuul]

Big Dragon miniatures were going to have a relatively low amount of units sold also, yet WotC made them. And, I'm sure they made some profit off of them since they made a few different ones over a fairly decent sized period of time. If DM's are willing to spend the kind of money they did for a huge Dragon mini, why does WotC think they wouldn't spend the same kind of money for a complete set of minis for an adventure?

Because the people who are willing to drop that kind of money on minis are, as a rule, the people who already have a huge collection of 'em, and are therefore the least likely to need the sort of thing you're describing.

A pack containing every mini required for an adventure is a product that caters to newcomers, since people with established collections probably have most of the cheap common stuff already. But a product that caters to newcomers has to be priced accordingly.

If a list of miniatures is going to be too big, or too many unique figures to be feasible or economical, then change the adventure.

I can't see this working. They could of course cut down the number of minis required by making adventures that aren't endless slogging hackfests... but even then, it would take only a handful of varied encounters to push the number of minis to an unacceptable level.

If they broke it up into sets, as in, for adventure X, you need the following mini sets:
Goblin pack 1
Goblin pack 2
Orc pack 1
Undead pack 2
Dungeon Classics pack 3
and 1 large white dragon single.

This would allow other adventures to also also use Goblin 1 or Orc 1, while adding different sets as necessary, reducing the duplicates you'd get after buying different full boxed sets.

Now this seems a great deal more feasible. Maybe design a small set of unique minis for each adventure - four or five of them for $20-25 - and supplement it with generic packs that can be reused easily. The generic packs would appeal to newcomers, the unique packs would be targeted by collectors, and you'd still achieve the goal of ensuring that you can get exactly the right minis for each adventure.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Did you passed the fantastic Remorhaz??? Heretic!

Even I liked the Remorhaz - and I hate prepainted plastics.

I got him for Christmas, but if I hadn't I would likely have bought him anyway, I have always liked the Remorhaz - but the 2e AD&D Ral Partha mini was a pain and a half to put together - the plastic was a good figure.)

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* Reaper really needs to do something about turn around time on their plastics - a set a year is just silly.... I did buy the Purple Worm from their line - it's purple, and a worm... hard to get that one wrong.