Update: Malhavoc PDFs no longer available at RPGnow (merged)

[PetriWessman]

If people want real change, politely worded posts work best, polite emails are even better. Between this thread, other threads here, and on some other boards, I have seen a lot of blatant attacks. It looks like several posts I saw earlier have been edited and that the anger seems to be more tempered.

At the same time, I didn’t realize I was on a horse, perhaps if I was I would have a different perspective.

I probably came off as harsher than intended, and I apologize. I don't necessarily agree with all your views, but that's a separate issue.

I hope this all works out for the best for everyone concerned. In my ideal world, DTRPG would realize that their delivery format has problems and is hurting their sales, and change it to some non-intrusive alternative (watermarked files, etc). After that they realize that the prices are set a bit too high and lower them. All this leads to nice, steady sales and lots of happy customers. Soon after this the U.S. is amazed to discover that the invasion of Iraq suddenly *has* led to a new democratic Arab world and the locals start throwing flowers at their feet. Soon after this the Easter Bunny makes a press conference, announcing his new business venture with the Tooth Fairy, "Eggs For Teeth".

Ahem. Sorryabouthat.

 

[Goddess FallenAngel]

I really have no idea what the contract between DTRPG and the companies using it might be. I have no idea what the decision making processes were for Malhavoc and FD moving over and switching to DRM, I also don't know if this is a requirement of distribution through DTRPG.

Thank you Mr. Lawinger, as I wasn't really looking for an answer. Rest assured, I did not expect you to know the answer, as you are not a rep of any of the companies involved in my rant - but I do appreciate the response.

Really, all I was trying to get across was that most of your posts have been focused on the new-to-pdf companies, when I think a big part of the rants on this thread have been not because of that, but because of "old" pdf publisher(s) "jumping ship". That's all.

Was Fiery Dragon every really considered any sort of PDF publisher? Really?

We've never created anything specifically for PDF.... <snip>

Sorry, I used your name primarily just as an example, as yourself and Monte being the two that came to mind while I was typing as having switched companies. That's all.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Was Fiery Dragon every really considered any sort of PDF publisher? Really?

We've never created anything specifically for PDF. The only things we ever sold on PDF were two out-of-print adventures using the 3.0 system (and, even more out-dated now, 3.0 psionics at that!) Mind you, they were both good adventures, but we made them available a year or more after the print versions had sold out.

I understand that we left RPGNow and that may have been seen as a big deal by some, but really it's a tiny amount of money (really tiny) and it's just easier for us to use one place as opposed to 2 for such small amounts (after all, who wants to get a semi-annual cheque for $10 when you can get one for $15 ?!?)

I think anyone shocked or disturbed by FDP moving is really overstating the case, as far as us as a PDF-publisher is concerned.

- James

The thing is, it's not the money, or ease of use for some of us. It's the principal. Fiery Dragon, Malhavoc, Necro, etc has betrayed us. it's like going to the book store and finding an electronic chip in all my favorite novels that lets me read it only at home, stops me from quoting Mark Twain for my research project, and unlike a hard copy, is easily lost, and, although it costs the publisher NOTHING to send me another copy, if the original is lost, they refuse.

Meanwhile, a pirate gets to do what he wishes with his copy, and with absolutely no hassle. With print products, these pdfs are ALREADY available for free and unrestricted. Yet, we must pay to rent one? Not me. Nice job guys. You have actually managed to INCREASE piracy. People like me, who would ordinarily have GLADLY paid you for your product are forced, on principle to seek out pirated copies, when, as easy as they are to find, principle alone was filling your pockets. You guys have embraced an evil concept, in my mind, MUCH more evil than piracy.

 

[Dimwhit]

Fiery Dragon, Malhavoc, Necro, etc has betrayed us.

With all due respect, that's more than a little overly-melodramatic.

 

[BryonD]

I don't know that the definition of "average" is accurate. How do you define average?

I think I am in the vicinity of the average PDF user. And this is completely unacceptable to me. Even if the average were somewhat more accepting, it wouldn't be enough.

My sisters (2), brother, parents, mother and father-in-law, and my other sister-in-law all have one active machine at home.

How many RPG pdfs do they buy a month?

I don't think that people actively buying pdfs are going to fall into this "average" very easily.

Well, before we were talking about the "average" RPG pdf consumer.
It isn't meaningful to change the defintion halfway through the conversation.

If we stay with a defintion that is applicable to the topic, then I think you are being overly optimistic. (And this is only to address one of a laundry list of reasons people will tend to avoid buying DRM stuff)

 

[Felon]

Meanwhile, a pirate gets to do what he wishes with his copy, and with absolutely no hassle. With print products, these pdfs are ALREADY available for free and unrestricted. Yet, we must pay to rent one? Not me. Nice job guys. You have actually managed to INCREASE piracy. People like me, who would ordinarily have GLADLY paid you for your product are forced, on principle to seek out pirated copies, when, as easy as they are to find, principle alone was filling your pockets.

You're "forced on principle" to steal? Let me be straightforward here: that's a load of childishly melodramatic BS. It is pretty damned immature to try to rationalize an act that's clearly wrong. Have you been reading Les Miserables recently?

Fact is, you're not living on the streets, and you're not being forced to steal a loaf of bread to fend off starvation. This isn't that big of a deal. You aren't a victim, and you haven't been "betrayed", because there's no sacred bond between you and the publishers to betray. There's no monstrous conspiracy, just some folks trying to find a way to make PDF publishing profitable. If you don't want to buy their PDF's, then don't. If enough folks agree, profits will dip and that'll send them a message (and that message, btw, isn't "ditch DRM" but rather "ditch online publishing because we can't turn a profit").

And if you're going to steal, then steal away. But realize that's makes you just as much a thief as the next jerk.

Folks, indignants posts like this are puerile are narcissistic in the extreme. Calm down and discuss the topic in a lucid manner.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

How's the old saying go? Treat someone like a thief and don't be surprised if they become one?

I was speaking metaphorically anyway, but you were too caught up in your personal attack to realize it. Nice job.

 

[Felon]

I was speaking metaphorically anyway,

A weak evasion. Let's see: "People like me, who would ordinarily have GLADLY paid you for your product are forced, on principle to seek out pirated copies". You endorsed theft as being "forced on principle", and now you're saying it was just a metaphor.

but you were too caught up in your personal attack to realize it. Nice job.

Once again, we see that you're the victim.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

A weak evasion. Let's see: "People like me, who would ordinarily have GLADLY paid you for your product are forced, on principle to seek out pirated copies". Show me the metaphor.



Once again, we see that you're the victim. You're endorsing theft as being "forced on principle". That's what I said you were doing, and that's what you did.

Perhaps I misspoke. I meant that "People like me, who would ordinarily have GLADLY paid you for your product" may seek out other means such as piracy. They are like me in that they would have gladly paid for an unrestricted product. Just because I show some restraint and just boycott them, doesn't mean everyone will. Some will become pirates now that weren't before, just on principle. Treat them like thieves, they become thieves.

 

[RCanning]

SNIP

I may be totally off, though. As someone who despises DRM, I hope I'm not. Not because I want DTRPG to fail, but because I hope they get the STRONG message that DRM is NOT acceptable and that as a result they will eliminate DRM. I do not want DTRPG to succeed with DRM because I feel it sends the wrong message.

Personally, the minute that I can buy non-DRM encoded stuff through DTRPG, there is about $150 worth of books I want; and I will probably buy. At the moment I am hitting their free product so I have things to test the DRM with, and so I can see what the stuff is like; but I am not spending a cent.

It could be a clever tactic. Put DRM up, let people bitch about it for a couple of weeks, everyone has our site on the tip of their tongue, and when they remove it everyone spends money. Hey, it would be clever.

Richard Canning