[UPDATED] Here's Mike Mearls' New D&D 5E Initiative System

In his AMA yesterday, WotC's Mike Mearls frequently referenced his dislike for D&D's initiative system, and mentioned that he was using a new initiative system in his own games. He later briefly explained what that was: "Roll each round. D4 = ranged, d8 = melee, d12 = spell, d6 = anything else, +d8 to swap gear, +d8 for bonus action, low goes 1st. Oh, and +d6 to move and do something ... adds tension, speeds up resolution. So far in play has been faster and makes fights more intense." That's the short version; there's likely more to it. Mearls mentioned briefly that he might trial it in Unearthed Arcana at some point to see what sort of reaction it gets.

In his AMA, Mearls indicated it was cyclic initiative he didn't like ("Cyclical initiative - too predictable"), which the above doesn't address at all (it merely changes the die rolls). Presumably there's more to the system than that quick couple of sentences up there, and it sounds like initiative is rolled every round. So if your initiative is based on your action, presumably you declare your action before rolling initiative (as opposed to declaring your action when your initiative comes around).

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UPDATE: I asked Mearls a couple of quick questions. He commented that it "lets ranged guys shoot before melee closes, spellcasters need to be shielded". He also mentioned that he "tinkered with using your weapon's damage die as your roll, but too inflexible, not sure it's worth it".

How is this implemented in-game? "Roll each round, count starts again at 1. Requires end of turn stuff to swap to end of round, since it's not static. In play I've called out numbers - Any 1s, 2s, etc, then just letting every PC go once monsters are done". You announce your action at the beginning of the round; you only need to "commit to the action type - you're not picking specific targets or a specific spell, for instance."

Dexterity does NOT adjust INITIATIVE. Mearls comments that "Dex is already so good, i don't miss it".

So what's the main benefit of the system? "Big benefit is that it encourages group to make a plan, then implement it. Group sees issue of the round and acts around it. I also think it adds a nice flow to combat - each round is a sequence. Plan, resolve, act, encourages group cohesion. Resolution is also faster - each player knows what to do; you don't need to pick spells ahead of acting, but groups so far have planned them."

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[FormerlyHemlock]

I'm trying to understand this.

1) Everyone decides what they're doing and rolls appropriate dice to determine initiative.
2) Sort out what order everyone goes it.
3) Play it out.
4) Go back to #1 if there are still baddies.

Is that right?

Note that step #2 is often unnecessary. You only need it when there are mutually exclusive-actions in #3, such as two guys both knocking each other unconscious in the same round. But if one guy does 27 HP of damage to the other, while taking 18 HP of damage in return, it doesn't matter what order things happened in and you can skip step #2.

 

[Nine Hands]

I use cards as well, but simpler:

1. Each player/monster has a card.
2. As a card is drawn from the deck, the corresponding player/monster acts and draws the next card.
3. The deck is reshuffled each round.

That looks awesome. I'm going to start doing this for my convention games.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Or just use current init rules and re-roll at the start of every round. Or go back to weapon speeds from 1e (?) that no one ever used.

I used them. In 2nd edition, anyway. (Never played 1E except the Gold Box games.)

 

[Ath-kethin]

From the 5e DMG, starting on page 270:

SPEED FACTOR
Some DMs find the regular progression of initiative too predictable and prone to abuse. Players can use their knowledge of the initiative order to influence their decisions. For example, a badly wounded fighter might charge a troll because he knows that the cleric goes before the monster and can heal him. Speed factor is an option for initiative that introduces more uncertainty into combat, at the cost of speed of play. Under this variant, the participants in a battle roll initiative each round. Before rolling, each character or monster must choose an action.

Initiative Modifiers.
Modifiers might apply to a creature's initiative depending on its size and the action it takes. For example, a creature that fights with a light weapon or casts a simple spell is more likely to act before a creature armed with a heavy or slow weapon. See the Speed Factor Initiative Modifiers table for details. If an action has no modifier listed, the action has no effect on initiative. If more than one modifier applies (such as wielding a two-handed, heavy melee weapon), apply them all to the initiative roll.

--Charts and Clarifications--

Rolling Initiative. After deciding on an action, everyone rolls initiative and applies modifiers, keeping the result secret. You then announce an initiative number, starting with 30 and working down (it helps to call out ranges of numbers at the start). Break any ties by having the combatant with the highest Dexterity act first. Otherwise, roll to determine who goes first.

Turns. On its turn, a creature moves as normal but must take the action it selected or take no action at all. Once everyone has acted, the process repeats. Everyone in the battle selects an action. rolls initiative, and takes turns in order.

I fail to see how this system, or some slight variation of it, fails to accomplish every goal most of us have with initiative. It keeps people engaged, it keeps combat fast, and it keeps things from being too predictable.

Really, the takeaway idea form this discussion for me is just removing the Dex modifier to initiative. I am in agreement with many that Dex does enough already. I've heard discussions of people using their INT modifier instead, and maybe I'll start doing that. Or maybe adding 1/4 or 1/5 of the character's level to the roll? Maybe the proficiency bonus? That way higher level characters still go faster (as they normally would due to boosting their Dex scores over time). Hmmm.

 

[Hurin70]

Mearls is realizing that the DnD system is too basic and simplistic; the same could be said for many other elements of the system. I think people are starting to realize that, now that the nostalgia has worn off. 4th Edition is looking a lot better in hindsight, just like Obama now looks a lot better now that we have Trump.

Actions that are faster should go first. This was the case for example in Rolemaster. I'm glad the new edition of Rolemaster is going to an even more sophisticated system, with Action Points much like the old Fallout games.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Mearls is realizing that the DnD system is too basic and simplistic; the same could be said for many other elements of the system. I think people are starting to realize that, now that the nostalgia has worn off. 4th Edition is looking a lot better in hindsight, just like Obama now looks a lot better now that we have Trump.

Actions that are faster should go first. This was the case for example in Rolemaster. I'm glad the new edition of Rolemaster is going to an even more sophisticated system, with Action Points much like the old Fallout games.

Well, I agree with your first two sentences anyway.

 

[HobbitFan]

I don't see how Mearl's system is any better. It seems like its adding complexity to little benefit.

If the goal is to try and avoid static initiative, why not just reroll round to round?

 

[Argyle King]

The proposed system sounds as though it might heavily favor ranged combat. Low rolls are better and ranged attackers roll 1d4?

 

[OB1]

Mearls is realizing that the DnD system is too basic and simplistic; the same could be said for many other elements of the system. I think people are starting to realize that, now that the nostalgia has worn off. 4th Edition is looking a lot better in hindsight...

I don't think this is an accurate at all. Mearls specifically called out 4e as being too complex a system for general use in the AMA interview, but did suggest that they might release something similar to 4e under a D&D Tactics banner for those who prefer that type of game.

As for 5e, I would say that now is a good time to add rules to the system to allow those who have mastered the basic rules a chance at more complexity, and in fact it looks like that is going to happen with the rules expansion this fall. But IMO the core system isn't too basic and simplistic, it's great for both new and casual players. I'll be interested in looking at the "Advanced" rule set, but my bet is the more casual group I DM for will want to stick with the basic rules depending on how much complexity it adds.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Mearls is realizing that the DnD system is too basic and simplistic; the same could be said for many other elements of the system. I think people are starting to realize that, now that the nostalgia has worn off. 4th Edition is looking a lot better in hindsight, just like Obama now looks a lot better now that we have Trump.
.

5e has been out for 5 years, if you count the playtest. That's a bit long for nostalgia, don't you think? And there are no signs people are getting tired of 5e yet either. By comparison, 4e was out only 4 years. So what does that say about 4e?