UPDATED: True Strike + Impr. Trip [Confused about Tripping]

[Chorn]

I have an issue with the list of weapons that are considered appropriate for trip attacks. I believe it is way too short.

Perhaps they didn't give more weapons the tripping ability because it would make them too powerful. Battle axes and longswords are already equal as they are now; giving the axe the tripping ability would make it a slightly better weapon. It gets even worse when you consider that it would be better in every way except damage and disarming when compared to a flail.

To me, it looks like you could do a leg sweep or similar,

Mechanically it would be an unarmed trip, but you could always just flavor it as a heavy shield bash or a series of attacks focused on the legs that sends your opponent to the floor. Wasn't there a feat called Knockdown that gave you a free trip if you did a certain amount of damage in one blow? I seem to remember the flavor text for it was that you can hit your opponents so hard you knock them off their feet.

 

[CM]

I never did understand why staff-like weapons such as the quarterstaff, spear, and polearms qualified as trip weapons.

 

[Felnar]

so if a fighter with the improved trip feat and wielding a sword and shield uses an attack to make an unarmed trip attempt and suceeds in tripping, he is entitled to a free melee attack.
would this free attack have to be another unarmed attack? or could it be with the sword?

 

[Demoquin]

It can be with whatever you deem neccesary ... When you trip you get to attack again if you havent used your trip attempt if you succeed.


So Trip (unarmed), then slice and dice with sword.

 

[Dracomeander]

Perhaps they didn't give more weapons the tripping ability because it would make them too powerful. Battle axes and longswords are already equal as they are now; giving the axe the tripping ability would make it a slightly better weapon. It gets even worse when you consider that it would be better in every way except damage and disarming when compared to a flail.

Trying to impose mechanical equality on the weapons is not a reason to exclude one of the proper uses of the weapon from its place in the game. Weapons are not equal even as they are presented now.

I have yet to see a player choose a weapon for his character solely based on game mechanics. They factor in, yes, but greater weight is generally given to stylistic choices in our groups.

Generally, the flail was not used as a tripping weapon. The flail's more common use was to wrap around the opponent's shield or to foul and pull the shield out of the way for a partner to take advantage of the opponent's lack of defense. It was considered too difficult to get the flail to wrap enough to get sufficient purchase to pull someone's legs out from under them.

 

[argo]

You can always attempt a trip: if you are not using a triping weapon resolve it as an unarmed melee attack which means you provoke and AoO if you don't have IUS or Improved Trip.

The benefit of a triping weapon, aside from not provoking an AoO, is that if you fail the trip attempt and are counter-triped in turn then you may choose to drop the weapon instead of being triped.

Remember, Improved Trip does not protect you from being counter-triped should you fail to trip your opponent.

Hope that helps.

 

[two]

true strike imp. trip

Improved Trip uses some strange language:

IMPROVED TRIP [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise.
Benefit: You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to trip an opponent while you are unarmed. You also
gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to trip your opponent.
If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your
attack for the trip attempt.

Now, if you had true strike going, and tripped somebody, the true strike applies against the initial touch attack. Not the strength check. Ok. Got it.

What if you then MAKE the strength check, and the guy is tripped, and you have imp. trip, triggering the free attack?

You "gain a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your
attack for the trip attempt."

Does this mean you get the True Strike +20 once again, plus 4 for the opponent being prone?

 

[Darth Malakh]

well,...it appears so. By the way, True Strike work nicely with Cleave, esp. Great Cleave (please avoid thinking about dervishes here . That's a poor man's Whirlwind Attack...if you happen to deal at lot of damage and then some. Sundering Cleave (Combat Brute Subfeat), a decent two-handed weapon and a good deal of power attack work well with that one, too.
And my DM tells me True Strike is overestimated...pff.
ahh...does anybody know the havoc mage?

Yours

Malakh

 

[VorpalStare]

Improved Trip uses some strange language:

IMPROVED TRIP [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise.
Benefit: You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to trip an opponent while you are unarmed. You also
gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to trip your opponent.
If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your
attack for the trip attempt.

Now, if you had true strike going, and tripped somebody, the true strike applies against the initial touch attack. Not the strength check. Ok. Got it.

What if you then MAKE the strength check, and the guy is tripped, and you have imp. trip, triggering the free attack?

You "gain a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your
attack for the trip attempt."

Does this mean you get the True Strike +20 once again, plus 4 for the opponent being prone?

No, you don't get the benefits of the True Strike spell more than once. The text of the Improved Trip feat refers to your normal combat modifiers only, basically stating that you get a bonus attack at the same BAB and other normal adjustments that the initial trip attack used. So, if it was your third attack in a full-attack sequence, it would be made at your normal BAB -10.

The feat itself is not supernatural or magical in any way and does not affect the duration of spells.

 

[VorpalStare]

(Yeah, like Caliban said)

I believe you could trip whilst wielding a sword and wearing a shield. The text from the 3.5E SRD has the following (my emphasis):

"You can try to trip an opponent as an unarmed melee attack."

"Making a Trip Attack: Make an unarmed melee touch attack against your target. This provokes an attack of opportunity from your target as normal for unarmed attacks."

"Unarmed Attacks: Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon."

To me, it looks like you could do a leg sweep or similar, but I'm happy to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable or armed with a PHB or FAQ response.

I think there's a Quarterstaff of Sweeping in Magic of Faerun that grants the wielder the Improved Trip feat. This may just be a special weapon, or it might imply that a Quarterstaff can be used to trip.