updates of older modules

[Crothian]

In another thread Dungeon Delver talks about not being pleased with conversions of older modules. I've seen very few official things converted to newer editions. There have been some sequels and inspired by modules I've seen.

So, what has been done well and not so well? What can make these better?

I've been reading through Return to the Tomb of Horrors because I might be running it soon. I like it so far. It seems just as deadly but with a better back story and it really expands well on the original without ignoring or changing it.

 

[meomwt]

Paizo updated The Mud Sorceror's Tomb for 3.5E in issue 138. It is set, perhaps appropriately, for 14th-level characters: sufficiently powerful to overcome some of the nasty traps and tricks therein, but not at the epic stage yet. Whilst I haven't run either, they seem to have kept the spirit alive and made it a fair challenge.

And d'oh! How could I have forgotten the update of Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure - Maure Castle converted in issue 112, then expanded in #124 and #139 (and on RJK's website if you didn't play the Warlock's Walk level at GenCon in 2007. All of the 1e nastiness is there, all the traps, all the bad guys and (better still) in 3E widescreen goodness. Great maps, great NPC motivations and great writing.

 

[firesnakearies]

I'd love to see Bruce Cordell do a 4E remake of The Gates of Firestorm Peak. For some reason, that's my favorite D&D module of all time.

I wonder how the new Tomb of Horrors by Ari Marmell is going to be?

Hey Mouseferatu, got any "this is what I was thinking as I worked on it" bits of interest to share?

 

[Doug McCrae]

From WotC there's the Returns (to the Temple of Elemental Evil, to the Keep on the Borderlands) and the Expeditions (to the Ruins of Greyhawk, to the Demonweb Pits, to Castle Ravenloft), SKR's The Liberation of Geoff and 4e's Revenge of the Giants.

I'm not sure how much the 4e epic tier module, Kingdom of the Ghouls, owes to Wolfgang Baur's Dungeon adventure of the same name.

Goodman Games and Necromancer have both done quite a few. Goodman published Dark Tower, Fortress Thieves of Badabaskor and Citadel of Fire with 3e rules, all originally Judges Guild products. Necromancer published Caverns of Thracia, Gary Gygax's Necropolis (which originally used the Dangerous Journeys - Mythus rules) and the Wilderlands of High Fantasy. Many of Necromance

Mayfair Games published a new version of City State of the Invincible Overlord in 1987.

 

[Derulbaskul]

This is my third or fourth attempt at writing this post.

My three main points are:

1. I would love to see many of the old classics mined for ideas and/or converted to 4E.
2. I don't want to see those involved with designing or developing Revenge of the Giants in any sort of design and development role. (Astral giants? That's called change for change's sake: gratuitous change that has nothing to do with the needs of the story. I don't want glowy giants with Sigmund the Sea Monster for a bottom.)
3. I don't want the old adventures touched unless and until WotC learns to follow their own adventure design advice as someone so accurately posted on the thread offering advice to Rodney Thompson.

I would love to see the original Temple of Elemental Evil "done right" (IMO, of course, because I know so many see it as a classic). The 4E story changes make this so much easier.

I would also love to see G1-3, D1-3 and then Q1 done as a paragon to epic series (but no astral giants). Let's also see the return of the Slave Lords. I could see that as an heroic tier campaign stretching from 1st through to 10th levels.

There's a lot of good material there to be mined. Why constantly reinvent the wheel (and invent astral giants) when there is a stack of good material to be updated? Also, if the updates are done well (which means no astral giants), they have the potential to make sale to fans of the older editions.

After all, if Paizo has people like me who don't play their edition but buy all of their products because they are good! then I think WotC could also tap into the non-4E market if they do the updates well.

But I go back to point 3: adventures need to be better designed than they are now.

 

[Hellzon]

From WotC there's the Returns (to the Temple of Elemental Evil, to the Keep on the Borderlands) and the Expeditions (to the Ruins of Greyhawk, to the Demonweb Pits, to Castle Ravenloft), SKR's The Liberation of Geoff and 4e's Revenge of the Giants.

There's also 4E Village of Hommlet (RPGA reward) and 3.x White Plume Mountain and Return to the Temple of the Frog

 

[Azgulor]

Paizo updated The Mud Sorceror's Tomb for 3.5E in issue 138. It is set, perhaps appropriately, for 14th-level characters: sufficiently powerful to overcome some of the nasty traps and tricks therein, but not at the epic stage yet. Whilst I haven't run either, they seem to have kept the spirit alive and made it a fair challenge.

(emphasis mine)

Like any good remake, the spirit of the original has to be captured and that's where I feel most remakes fail.

The 3e remake of Ravenloft, in its quest to warrant a harback size volume, is still a solid remake adventure. However, it was also amped up "to 11" in terms of additional opponents. While most were interesting additions, many of them felt tacked on. However, I suspect that perception is the result of the delve format causing one to go to 2-3 different places in the book to understand the NPCs characterizations. I still give the edge to the original.

 

[Piratecat]

I've been reading through Return to the Tomb of Horrors because I might be running it soon. I like it so far. It seems just as deadly but with a better back story and it really expands well on the original without ignoring or changing it.

It's too long, with a really slow middle bit. This is a consistent problem; it seems to me that many of the classic updates run afoul of pacing issues. We saw it in Night Below, 2e's attempt at a classic underdark campaign in the spirit of G-D-Q, and it's evident in Monte's Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil.

 

[billd91]

I thought a couple of 2e's remakes - Return to Keep on the Borderlands and Return to White Plume Mountain were pretty good.
The Keep revisits the setting as a more modern starter adventure with more advice given to the beginning DM about role playing the NPCs and about bringing the Caves of Chaos to life rather than as a static place to adventure.
White Plume returns to the adventure site years after the original adventure has occurred and the place is significantly changed. While it doesn't really hold very true to the original way the module played out, it's an interesting view of what might happen in a site that a previous generation of adventurers has plundered. And the story driving the adventure is interesting too.

 

[Crothian]

It's too long, with a really slow middle bit. This is a consistent problem; it seems to me that many of the classic updates run afoul of pacing issues. We saw it in Night Below, 2e's attempt at a classic underdark campaign in the spirit of G-D-Q, and it's evident in Monte's Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil.

Long modules I have noticed do have pacing issues in general. I usually run the short 32 pagers becasue we can get in and out easily and it doesn't have complexities that we aren't looking for. Maybe I'll have a thread about how to pace out a long module next.