Upper Krust, where are you? [Immortal's Handbook]

[Anubis]

Re: Re: Xun Huo vs. Orcus

Hello again mate!



As I would have easily predicted, given the CRs of both participants.



Well Orcus ain't no pin up!



I don't see you catching Orcus on his own too often.

Also whats to say Orcus wasn't hasted as well!?

Seemingly, summoning Undead (x3 33rd-level Wizard (1), Cleric (1), Psionicist (1) Demiliches*) would be a better move.

*and a 1HD skeleton who just dances about since it can't really affect proceedings.

If you let Orcus get to melee range he should have upped an AMF then introduced you to his tail poison.

Of course you would have been in serious trouble had you attempted such an affront to my version of Orcus!

He was hasted, that was his first action.

Technically, though, since I won initiative, I could have killed him in one hit with my Horrid Wilting that did 1300+ damage. Also, his tail poison would have been useless because the DC was below my Fort save and I no longer fail on 1, so it couldn't have worked.

I'm getting an idea.

 

[Anubis]

Re: Re: Xun Huo vs. Orcus

Actually, your example proved only one thing; "Never use a really bad example as the basis of your argument". Or was it "Never rub another man's rhubarb"? I can never remember which one.

How is it a bad example?

 

[Anubis]

With the Divine Array you get six set ability scores (which you can assign to any of your abilities). Its just like the Standard Array presented in the Dungeon Masters Guide (pg. 20).

Divine Array: 40, 28, 25, 24, 24, 24

eg. Using the Divine Array perhaps Xun Huo could have...

Str 24, Dex 28, Con 24, Int 40, Wis 25, Cha 24.

You still gain your bonus for class levels, and for Divine Rank.

So I'd have to replace my stats and set them to certain points? I'll go with your way, even though it gives more power. That Divine Array is just plain silly.

 

[Anubis]

Re: Re: Request

It should allow a Fort save.

Save, eh? Wouldn't a Will save be better to keep in line with the other spells in that category, and so that Heal can actually work on undead? (They automatically make Fort saves against anything that doesn't destroy.)

Also, would it be a save for half damage, a certain amount, what?

 

[Anubis]

Orcus is 50HD, but he has 40 integrated character levels.

40 levels = ECL 40
10HD Outsider = ECL 7
16 SA & SQ = ECL 8

Total 55 ECL = CR 33

I see! The "effective caster levels" count as actual levels for determining ECL, right? Gotcha.

This is correct. However as you ascertained I have a few new ideas regarding deity ECL/CR.

The standard 1st-level Fighter in the DMG, given Quasi-deity power could beat the standard 15th-level version!

I usually agree with you, but I think I must disagree on this point. I don't think there is ANY way a Level 1 Dv0 could defeat a Level 15. What powers does that Quasi-Deity have that could really hurt the Fighter? The Fighter is likely to kill the Quasi-Deity in a single hit!

Consider the following changes quasi-official (no pun intended):

Quasi-deity: ECL +14
Divine Rank 1: ECL +24
Each subsquent Divine Rank: ECL +4

Hmmm . . . That seems to give the deities a bit too much credit . . .

Perhaps you should consider:

Quasi-Deity (DvR 0): ECL +10
Demigod (DvR 1): ECL +20
ECL +4 per each subsequent DvR

That would the dities on pretty strict levels while not giving them too much credit, and I think anything above Level 10 would obliterate a Level 1 DvR 0 Quasi-Deity. Also remember that CR is based on four characters, not one.

On top of that, it gives a set ECL +20 for each Divine Class (Demigod, Lesser Deity, etc.)

 

[Anubis]

Re: Re: Request

Hi Anubis mate!



Just did.



Do you want me to post there as well?

I saw someone who questioned the wisdom of your characters CR, so I may stop by for todays edification.



The problem (as far as I know, and take into account I don't have the ELH yet) is not the Empower Spell Metamagic Feat but rather the Improved Metamagic Feat - its totally insane.

In fact I actually started a thread about 9 months ago about Improved Metamagic where I outlined how broken it was - of course back then no one paid much attention since the ELH was still almost a year away at that point.



I'll certainly nuke the Improved Metamagic Feat (provided the ELH goes SRD)



It should allow a Fort save.

Even without Improved Metamagic, Empower Spell is only +2 Spell Levels, so it doesn't have much effect. The amount of power is still ridiculously insane. All Improved Metamagic does is make feats like Energy Admixture, Intensify Spell, Enhance Spell, Quicken Spell, and Multispell useful. They are pretty much useless without Improved Metamagic because they're all but unusuble until EXTREMELY high levels.

Empower Spell is still ridiculously strong without Improved Metamagic. Also add Enlarge Spell to the ridiculous power category when it's stacked, because that would allow Horrid Wilting to obliterate entire armies!

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Xun Huo vs. Orcus

How is it a bad example?

I take it you haven't read the thread lately?

 

[Anubis]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Xun Huo vs. Orcus

I take it you haven't read the thread lately?

I post on it quite a bit. How is it a bad example?

Seriously, tell me. How is it a bad example? Explain. I'm willing to listen.

 

[Buddha the DM]

From Deities & Demigods:
Energy Immunity: Deities of rank 1 or higher are immune to electricity, cold, and acid, even if the attacker is a deity of higher divine rank.

Quasi-Deities, of which Gaedynn Aengrilor in one, are Divine Rank 0 according to page 25 of Deities & Demigods.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Xun Huo vs. Orcus

Hello mate!

He was hasted, that was his first action.

As someone in the other thread pointed out a Balor is going to be ineffective against a protagonist who deems themselves powerful enough to take on Orcus.

Technically, though, since I won initiative, I could have killed him in one hit with my Horrid Wilting that did 1300+ damage.

That sounds like a better example.

How did you work that damage out?

Also, his tail poison would have been useless because the DC was below my Fort save and I no longer fail on 1, so it couldn't have worked.

Your Fort Save in an AMF is going to be way lower than that DC save.

I'm getting an idea.

?