Upper Krust, where are you? [Immortal's Handbook]

[Knight Otu]

Also, I would guess that multiple gods could act together to increase their effective Divine Rank for the purpose of overcoming immunities (similar to the Help Another action).

 

[Anubis]

Hi Anubis!

I have my reply to your earlier post ready (about Ability Scores) - but I want to work on it - I had a few new ideas just there now.

Incidently I think I have a solution to the PC wealth tables.

Try:

Level x Level x Level x Level x 5 GP

...?

Anyway...think its time I got my dinner.

I know it's been a while since we discussed this part, but I feel it needs to be addressed. Have you tested this formula? I haven't even gotten that far up to be able to test it.

My only suggestion might be to start by giving NPCs the same equipment value as PCs. Would that be unbalanced or would it be a good way to increase challenge?

Also, your formula suggests an exponential increase in money. Is that what you advocate? (I'm leaving this one to you because I'm nowhere near the point where this is gonna matter in any of my games.)

 

[-Eä-]

Greetings people!

I'm currently in the army, a compulsory institution here in Norway, and that's why I haven't been answering posts lately.
Fortunately I get a great first aid here, so it's not a complete waste, and after the course, which takes 7 weeks from now, I get much more spare time...

There are some things that need to be addressed here, but due to lack of time, I cannot address all of them.

BTW: On DCs and Epic Spells: UK's assumption may be true at "lower" levels, but at "higher" levels, it's not, considering the fact that the XP mitigating factor is constant, not varying with level. Hence, the approach 1,4,9,16 is NOT appropriate.

I know it's been a while since we discussed this part, but I feel it needs to be addressed. Have you tested this formula? I haven't even gotten that far up to be able to test it.

My only suggestion might be to start by giving NPCs the same equipment value as PCs. Would that be unbalanced or would it be a good way to increase challenge?

Also, your formula suggests an exponential increase in money. Is that what you advocate? (I'm leaving this one to you because I'm nowhere near the point where this is gonna matter in any of my games.)

It's not exponential at all, it's quartic.

Here's a table:

10     50 000
20     800 000
30     4 050 000
40     12 800 000
50     31 250 000
60     64 800 000
70     120 050 000
80     204 800 000
90     328 050 000
100    500 000 000
120    1 036 800 000
140    1 920 800 000
160    3 276 800 000
180    5 248 800 000
200    8 000 000 000
250    19 531 250 000
300    40 500 000 000
350    75 031 250 000
400    128 000 000 000
450    205 031 250 000
500    312 500 000 000
600    648 000 000 000

In fact, it's a quite good approximation, although mine is much closer. However, I use a much more advanced formula that's not convenient to use (unless you have a calculator).

Could someone please post the actual table? I haven't got my books with me this weekend, and without the actual values, I cannot run a linear regression on your formula, telling if its approximation is adequate.

 

[Bjorn Doneerson]

Yo Krust, Is this at all like your current list? Its from the original on "Overpowers sign here. Its the best I could find.

Entities:

Entropy (Greek: Chaos), (Egypt: Nun)
Evil (Greyhawk: Tharizdun), (Christian: Satan)
Fate (Greyhawk: Lady Probability)
Good (Christian: Holy Spirit)
Time (Persian: Zurvan Akurana), (Greyhawk: Proctor Chronos)

Overgods (by Plane):

Incidently the four Seraphim (Arch-Angels: eg. Michael) are considered equivalent to Overgods as are the two Balseraph (Gog and Magog).

- Prime Material: Mother-Earth (Greek: Gaia), (Egypt: Heh), (Indian: Aditi),
(Celtic: Danu)
Difficult one, I also wanted to have Ubbo-Sathla here. In which case I would make Gaia a Neutral Good Overpower.

- Concordant Opposition: Ahura Mazdah (Conjunction of Ahriman and Ormazd).
Or possibly Ubbo-Sathla?

- Ethereal Plane: Yibb-Tstll
- Plane of Shadow: Cyaegha
- Astral Plane: Yog-Sothoth
- Negative Plane: Nyogtha
- Positive Plane: ?
The Plane of Shadow is now no longer a demiplane.

- Elemental Air: Air
- Elemental Earth: Earth
- Elemental Fire: Fire
- Elemental Water: Water
Do these need names?

- Nirvana: Daoloth
- Limbo: Azathoth

- Arcadia: Justice
- Seven Heavens: Faith
- Twin Paradises: Prudence (possibly Greek: Gaia)
- Elysium: Hope (Cthonian: Nodes)
- Happy Hunting Grounds: Temperance
- Olympus: Charity (possibly Greek: Phanes)
- Gladsheim: Fortitude (Norse: Audumhla)
Obviously based on the Seven Virtues - I am trying to get them to directly oppose the seven sins.

It might be possible to split Heh (Egyptian Overgoddess) from Gaia.

- Pandemonium: Wrath (Greek: Erebus)
- Abyss: Lust (Cthonian: Shub-Niggurath)
- Tartarus: Gluttony (Cthonian: Abhoth), (Greek: Tartarus)
- Hades: Envy (Cthonian: Shudde M Ell), (Greek: Nyx)
- Gehenna: Greed (Egyptian: Amon)
- Nine Hells: Pride (Egyptian: Kek)
- Acheron: Sloth (Cthonian: Quachil Uttaus)
Based on the Seven Sins, difficult to tie them to a plane AND get them to oppose the Seven Virtues.

Elder Gods by Pantheon:
- African: working on it.
- Babylonian-Sumerian: Apsu and Tiamat.
- Celtic: Donn
- Central American: Ometicuhtli
- Chinese: The Yellow Emperor/Shang-Ti
- Egyptian: Atum/Ra, Apep, Maat, Ptah.
- Greek: The Titans, Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
- Indian: Brahma, Durga (Conjunction of Parvati and Kali), Mahisha (Demon;
slain by Durga)
- Japanese: Inzagi and Inzamna.
- Norse: Surtur and Ymir.
- North American: Great Spirit.
- Persian: Ahriman, Ormazd.

 

[Anubis]

I doubt that is how it goes, at least with Tharizdun.

According to the official Greyhawk information currently out there, Tharizdun is a Greater Deity.

I hope UK don't change this because it would topple my created pantheon, in which Tharizdun was destroyed and his father Thanatos (my idea) took over his spot.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

Sorry for the slow response - I had a friends batchelor party to attend to yesterday.

A lot to get through - I'll start with the wealth issue.

I am not happy with WotCs results (in lieu of any system). As far as I can tell its akin to a x1.15 increase each level (I think this represents a doubling every 5 levels.

If this is continued it means you are hitting the billion gp figure at around the 75th-level mark.

Passing the Trillion gp mark close after 125th-level. Quodrillion gp around 175th-level.

So even though my own system gives drammatic results I think they are more manageable and ultimately more 'realistic' - given my own experience in such matters.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Anubis mate!

I'll answer this point before I return to your post Bjorn.

I doubt that is how it goes, at least with Tharizdun.

Well actually...

According to the official Greyhawk information currently out there, Tharizdun is a Greater Deity.

Thats what happens when you read dodgy material not taken from the source!

I hope UK don't change this because it would topple my created pantheon, in which Tharizdun was destroyed and his father Thanatos (my idea) took over his spot.

This is easily remedied anyway mate.

You could just swop Nerull (Thanatos by another name) and Tharizdun around.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Greetings people!

Hi Eä mate!

I'm currently in the army, a compulsory institution here in Norway, and that's why I haven't been answering posts lately.

Hope thats going well for you mate!

Fortunately I get a great first aid here, so it's not a complete waste, and after the course, which takes 7 weeks from now, I get much more spare time...

Let us know afterwards how it went.

There are some things that need to be addressed here, but due to lack of time, I cannot address all of them.

I'm sure they'll keep.

BTW: On DCs and Epic Spells: UK's assumption may be true at "lower" levels, but at "higher" levels, it's not, considering the fact that the XP mitigating factor is constant, not varying with level. Hence, the approach 1,4,9,16 is NOT appropriate.

I don't see any other way to get it working though.

In fact, it's a quite good approximation, although mine is much closer. However, I use a much more advanced formula that's not convenient to use (unless you have a calculator).

My intention is not to deliver an approximation though.

Could someone please post the actual table? I haven't got my books with me this weekend, and without the actual values, I cannot run a linear regression on your formula, telling if its approximation is adequate.

21: 975 K
22: 1.2 M
23: 1.5 M
24: 1.8 M
25: 2.1 M
26: 2.5 M
27: 2.9 M
28: 3.3 M
29: 3.8 M
30: 4.3 M
31: 4.9 M
32: 5.6 M
33: 6.3 M
34: 7 M
35: 7.9 M
36: 8.8 M
37: 9.9 M
38: 11 M
39: 12.3 M
40: 13.6 M

 

[Upper_Krust]

Yo Krust,

Whassup Bjorn!

Is this at all like your current list?

A bit (about 50%).

Its from the original on "Overpowers sign here. Its the best I could find.

Nice retrieval - I'm impressed.

Entities:

Entropy (Greek: Chaos), (Egypt: Nun)
Evil (Greyhawk: Tharizdun), (Christian: Satan)
Fate (Greyhawk: Lady Probability)
Good (Christian: Holy Spirit)
Time (Persian: Zurvan Akurana), (Greyhawk: Proctor Chronos)

Okay, first up this 'class' is now refered to Proto-deities.

Entropy
Fate
Matter
Spirit
Thought
Time

Overgods (by Plane):

Incidently the four Seraphim (Arch-Angels: eg. Michael) are considered equivalent to Overgods as are the two Balseraph (Gog and Magog).

- Prime Material: Mother-Earth (Greek: Gaia), (Egypt: Heh), (Indian: Aditi),
(Celtic: Danu)
Difficult one, I also wanted to have Ubbo-Sathla here. In which case I would make Gaia a Neutral Good Overpower.

- Concordant Opposition: Ahura Mazdah (Conjunction of Ahriman and Ormazd).
Or possibly Ubbo-Sathla?

- Ethereal Plane: Yibb-Tstll
- Plane of Shadow: Cyaegha
- Astral Plane: Yog-Sothoth
- Negative Plane: Nyogtha
- Positive Plane: ?
The Plane of Shadow is now no longer a demiplane.

- Elemental Air: Air
- Elemental Earth: Earth
- Elemental Fire: Fire
- Elemental Water: Water
Do these need names?

- Nirvana: Daoloth
- Limbo: Azathoth

- Arcadia: Justice
- Seven Heavens: Faith
- Twin Paradises: Prudence (possibly Greek: Gaia)
- Elysium: Hope (Cthonian: Nodes)
- Happy Hunting Grounds: Temperance
- Olympus: Charity (possibly Greek: Phanes)
- Gladsheim: Fortitude (Norse: Audumhla)
Obviously based on the Seven Virtues - I am trying to get them to directly oppose the seven sins.

It might be possible to split Heh (Egyptian Overgoddess) from Gaia.

- Pandemonium: Wrath (Greek: Erebus)
- Abyss: Lust (Cthonian: Shub-Niggurath)
- Tartarus: Gluttony (Cthonian: Abhoth), (Greek: Tartarus)
- Hades: Envy (Cthonian: Shudde M Ell), (Greek: Nyx)
- Gehenna: Greed (Egyptian: Amon)
- Nine Hells: Pride (Egyptian: Kek)
- Acheron: Sloth (Cthonian: Quachil Uttaus)
Based on the Seven Sins, difficult to tie them to a plane AND get them to oppose the Seven Virtues.

Some of these are the same. But most are changed.

I also now have found esoteric names for for the elemental overgods.

Elder Gods by Pantheon:
- African: working on it.
- Babylonian-Sumerian: Apsu and Tiamat.
- Celtic: Donn
- Central American: Ometicuhtli
- Chinese: The Yellow Emperor/Shang-Ti
- Egyptian: Atum/Ra, Apep, Maat, Ptah.
- Greek: The Titans, Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
- Indian: Brahma, Durga (Conjunction of Parvati and Kali), Mahisha (Demon;
slain by Durga)
- Japanese: Inzagi and Inzamna.
- Norse: Surtur and Ymir.
- North American: Great Spirit.
- Persian: Ahriman, Ormazd.

A lot of these are changed.

At best the above was work in progress. I now have the completed list.

 

[Bjorn Doneerson]

Nuffin'. sup wit joo?

God, if you only knew what I went through to find that. (Oh look, it seems like I'm telling God, but God would already know. Thats Funny.)

Is this completed list is private knowledge? Aren't I annoying with these lists?