Upper Krust, where are you? [Immortal's Handbook]

[Blacksad]

Re: Re: Spell Resistance

Bonjour mon ami Blacksad!

Avant que l'Immortals Handbook soit fini je peux etre a l'aise en francais...?

Comme Gez l'a dit, il y a des chances que oui.

Is'nt this what the Spell Focus feats already accomplish?

Normally you can take spell focus only once, I've house ruled that and transformed the feat so that it can stack and be taken at level 1, 9, 17, 25...
It remove the need for feats such as greater spell focus and epic spell focus, and allow to have an unlimited number of useful feats.

Looking at the Mantle of Epic Spell Resistance in the ELH it appears they have calculated its value incorrectly.

It should actually be 2,800,000 GP rather than the 290,000 GP they claim (unless I am missing something!?).

I do not have my ELH at school, so I can't help.

However, heres an example of a situation I am relating to:

95th-level Wizard = Spell Penetration 1d20+47 (with 3 spell penetration feats)

84th-level Drow Fighter = CR 40 uses 14 (of 70) feats on Improved Spell Resistance, now SR 68

A Demigod uses 3 SDAs (or equivalents) on improving Spell Resistance now has SR 67*

*I have changed the increase to +10 for that particular ability.

given that it is CR 40 with my house rule the drow would have been able to take the improved spell resistance feat 3 times, so it would be max SR 57

N.B. the spell penetration feat doesn't stack, unless you change it like what I've done with spell focus (and probably with a limit based on CR instead of level, plus it would be easier to use the feat with monster that way).

SDA stacks? Anyway, I still do not know the rules for gods, I'm waiting for the IH before memorizing anything, so I can't say if a demigod with SR 67 is good or bad (especially given that I don't know it's typical ECL/CR).

P.S. to calculate the new SR of monster above CR 20, the easiest formula is (old SR minus old CR) plus new CR

 

[S'mon]

Demographics

This is something I've worked on a lot, I've found that the following works well.

1. NPC classes: These make up 99% of the population, around 90% commoners and mostly 1st level. The other 9% are Experts, Warriors, Aristocrats, Adepts etc. Of this 9%, 75% are 1st level, 12.5% 2nd, 6.25% 3rd, etc (1/2 at each higher level, round fractions up or down to fit the total pop).

2.PC classes: 1% of population, or less in peaceful areas. Of these 50% are 1st level, 25% 2nd, 12.5% 3rd, up through level 10. Of those levels 10+, there are 1/3 as many 10th as 9th*, then the next level has 3/4 as many, every +2 levels halfs the number. This gives a decent but not overwhelming number of high-level PC class characters.


*9th is a break-point, it's where CR 1 encounters no longer give XP, so there are far fewer 10th than 9th.

So in a population of 1 million there are 10,000 PC-class:

5,000 1st
2,500 2nd
1,250 3rd
625 4th
312 5th
156 6th
78 7th
39 8th
19 9th

19 10th+:

6 10th
4 11th
3 12th
2 13th
2 14th
1 15th
1 16th

 

[Xeriar]

Re: Re: Greetings!

Hi Eä; Xeriar and Knight Otu!

Hi UK!

Unless the numbers are relatively small you shouldn't be able to do more than generalise the population.

I mean you can't know if there are exactly 524,287 people in a given area, what about visitors, some may be away travelling, new born children etc.

At most I suggest you only use the first three digits of a given number.

975 = 975
1,288 = 1,280
44,533 = 44,500
766,619 = 766,000
etc.

Ea's point still stands - the difference between 524,000 and 525,000 is drastic. Same with 16,700,000 and 16,800,000, same with 16,300 and 16,400. Even the first two digits present the same problem.

Why shouldn't you be able to combine an area? Why should the populations for a city, state, nation, continent, world, system, galaxy, plane, multiverse and so on have to be calculated with different methods in order to add up? This is my main beef with the WotC system - it scales even worse than yours does.

Nor does it give class, attribute, race, gender or wealth breakdown. A city is meaningless without people to fill it with

I need to dig up a list of names, too. A lot of them. I'll build it somehow...

 

[S'mon]

Breakdown by class will vary by area. IMC I use the following:

Frequency of PC Class Characters
No more than 1% of the population belong to the 'elite' (PC) classes - less in peaceful areas. Distribution is as given above. Normally at least 50% of these are 1st level, with 25% 2nd level, 12.5% 3rd level, and so on, up through level 9. Of the remainder, typically between 2-10% are Warriors, 2-10% Expert, 1-5% Aristocrat, no more than 1% Adept or other spellcaster, and the rest Commoner.

For distribution of PC classes I use different numbers by area - eg for Greyhawk the breakdown in the 1983 WoG boxed set (50% Fighters, 1 % Monks, etc) is fine. For a generic world the PC encounter table numbers in the 1e DMG etc are fine. For south Ea I use:

10% Barbarian
2% Bard
5% Cleric
2% Druid
42% Fighter
2% Monk
2% Paladin
5% Ranger
10% Rogue
5% Sorcerer
5% Wizard
10% Other (prestige classes, variant classes, etc) or use Fighter

 

[Xeriar]

The thing about your system S'Mon is that you need to assign the real powerful people of an area somewhere.

Ie, you total up some cities, come up with some values, but the nation as a whole has more than the sum of its parts.

Not that it's a big deal

For population distribution, my program will default to
75% commoners
15% experts
5% warriors
1% fighters
1% rogues

I forget the rest (all less than 1%), obviously these values can be changed.

 

[S'mon]

The thing about your system S'Mon is that you need to assign the real powerful people of an area somewhere.

Ie, you total up some cities, come up with some values, but the nation as a whole has more than the sum of its parts.

Well, yeah, but I don't see that that's a problem. The really high level NPCs should generally be individually detailed anyway. In my campaign world area of about 20 million population, the distribution gives only 4 NPCs of level 20+, and I know who they all are already (2 Sorcerers, a Conjurer, & a Necromancer-Lich) .

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Teaching French to Upper Krust

Salut mon pote !
(Hello mate!)

Bonsoir mes ami Gez et Blacksad (you see I am okay on the simple stuff)

Ah, c'est pas mal, effectivement.
Il manque juste un "ne" (avant que l'IH ne soit fini, et la deuxième partie de la phrase serait plutôt formulée "je serais peut-être à l'aise en français".

Mais en langage parlé, ça pourrait passer sans problème.

If I'm reading you right (?) there are two mistakes but I may be able to speak the language without too many problems (which I can assure you is definately not yet the case!)

I definately need more studying.

Comme Gez l'a dit, il y a des chances que oui.

Effronte

Normally you can take spell focus only once, I've house ruled that and transformed the feat so that it can stack and be taken at level 1, 9, 17, 25...
It remove the need for feats such as greater spell focus and epic spell focus, and allow to have an unlimited number of useful feats.

Won't you also then need to extend the Great Fortitude; Iron Will and Lightning Reflexes feats to compensate?

Why not just leave it the way it is - seems well enough balanced.

given that it is CR 40 with my house rule the drow would have been able to take the improved spell resistance feat 3 times, so it would be max SR 57

Another house rule just to compensate for the initial addendums failings - you can see why I am reticent to advocate this!

N.B. the spell penetration feat doesn't stack, unless you change it like what I've done with spell focus (and probably with a limit based on CR instead of level, plus it would be easier to use the feat with monster that way).

I don't know if theres a case for allowing Spell Penetration to stack indefinately though.

SDA stacks? Anyway, I still do not know the rules for gods, I'm waiting for the IH before memorizing anything, so I can't say if a demigod with SR 67 is good or bad (especially given that I don't know it's typical ECL/CR).

Yes that ability stacks. In fact in the book a Demigod (feasibly a 40th-level character) could have a Spell Resistance of 137 using Deities & Demigods alone.

I have reduced the Increased Spell Resistance Salient Divine Ability to +10 (rather than +20).

P.S. to calculate the new SR of monster above CR 20, the easiest formula is (old SR minus old CR) plus new CR.

Wouldn't that retain previous flaws though.

Surely (New)CR+11 is the easiest and most credible?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Re: Re: Greetings!

Hi UK!

Hi Xeriar mate!

Ea's point still stands - the difference between 524,000 and 525,000 is drastic.

I worked those out and 'drastic' is not the word that springs to mind.

Why shouldn't you be able to combine an area? Why should the populations for a city, state, nation, continent, world, system, galaxy, plane, multiverse and so on have to be calculated with different methods in order to add up?

Exactly - it shouldn't.

This is my main beef with the WotC system - it scales even worse than yours does.

I'll take that as a compliment...I think!

Nor does it give class, attribute, race, gender or wealth breakdown. A city is meaningless without people to fill it with

I have a table for class demographics in the Immortals Handbook, its a bit more straightforward than Simons ideas (less being more and all that)

Well, yeah, but I don't see that that's a problem. The really high level NPCs should generally be individually detailed anyway.

Absolutely!

In my campaign world area of about 20 million population, the distribution gives only 4 NPCs of level 20+,

Of course once we add in the Thrinians!

and I know who they all are already (2 Sorcerers, a Conjurer, & a Necromancer-Lich) .

They can't hide forever! Their death is my salvation, so to speak.

 

[S'mon]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Greetings!

Of course once we add in the Thrinians!

They can't hide forever! Their death is my salvation, so to speak.

I wasn't counting Thrinia or the Albine cities, which have a higher number of powerful types. The 4 I was thinking of were Marradin (Lich, 25th I think), Baba Yaga (Sorc 28), Omazad (Sorc 25) and your Clarendon (Conj 20/Rgr 3). There are also quite a few in the 16-19 range, like Warmaster Kung & Ling Wa of Mount Fire, your Archduke Ulfius Bloodhammer, etc.

Oh I forgot Kadai Khan - FTR 21 last I looked. You'll note almost all the lvl 20+ NPCs are Mongali.

Edit: all this talk of Mongali & Mt Fire makes me want to watch that Storm Riders CD.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Greetings!

Hey Simon!

I wasn't counting Thrinia or the Albine cities, which have a higher number of powerful types.

So using my system (which is rightfully your system) we get:

20th = 18
21st = 9
22nd = 4
23rd = 2
24th = 1
25th-34th = +1 per level.

Total: 44 characters 20th-level or above.

Which, taking Thrinians; Albines and the Chaos Wastes into account is just about accurate don't you think!?

Hi Daemonbolo!

The 4 I was thinking of were Marradin (Lich, 25th I think),

How hes still alive (or rather dead) is beyond me.

Baba Yaga (Sorc 28),

Tell me you have read those Hellboy Graphic novels I lent you (they have Baba Yaga in them)!?

Omazad (Sorc 25)

Another dude on my hit list and revenge is going to be sweet! I'm going to pimp slap that whole Mongali Pantheon of Ancestral Spirits and then roll over that 100,000+ mortal Mongali Army like a colossal lawnmower. That'll teach 'em!

and your Clarendon (Conj 20/Rgr 3).

Hurrah for the Thrinians! Fight the good fight! No surrender!

There are also quite a few in the 16-19 range, like Warmaster Kung & Ling Wa of Mount Fire, your Archduke Ulfius Bloodhammer, etc.

Emperor Ulfius soon enough when the revolution comes!

Oh I forgot Kadai Khan - FTR 21 last I looked. You'll note almost all the lvl 20+ NPCs are Mongali.

Or in the Chaos Wastes.

Edit: all this talk of Mongali & Mt Fire makes me want to watch that Storm Riders CD.

You should - its fantastic! I take it Jamz eventually returned it!?