Use Magic Device provides something for nothing

[Dimwhit]

Is it fun to let a character do everything all the time?

No.

Is it fun to have some things that work differently, whether they be locked doors, or four dimensional puzzles?

Yes.

Is it fun for the party when a Dwarven Cleric or Paladin is required to do something but no one is playing a Dwarven Cleric or Paladin?

If the DM is catering the adventure to the party and there actually is someone who can do it, fine. But adventures drive me nuts when they require a particular class and the party doesn't have one. That's why Rogues are nice.

I would allow the Rogue to do this.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

On the other hand, a search for a dwarven cleric or paladin ally to open the door for you might prove to be an interesting RP challenge.

 

[Corsair]

On the other hand, a search for a dwarven cleric or paladin ally to open the door for you might prove to be an interesting RP challenge.

What he/she/it said.

Sometimes its nice to require more than a die roll to solve an obstacle.

 

[beepeearr]

Hmm, instead of making the turning attempt to unlock a magical property of the door, you could have just said the area was consecrated and had a magical lock that only allows dwarves to pass through (which the rogue could try to bypass). Then the door could have been warded using the rules from Defenders of the Faith, which the Rogue would not be able to bypass since it is neither a property of a magical device or a lock.

Just a thought.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

He.

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

I take Use Magic Device at Face Value.

Its a skill you can use to, well, use a magic device.

So, any rogue can attempt a Use Magic Device roll to, well, use a magic device.

Of course, some items might have a really high DC.

Or, they may require special components the PC may be lacking (like Craft- weaponsmithing requiring a forge to make a steel longsword. Thus the attempt would fail, unless the PC had the special equipment.

In your case, I'd say that the PC needed to have a Source of Positive Energy in additon to his UMD check. (Say a Potion of Healing smeared over the door to 'emulate' the positive energy burst of a turning attempt).

Don't be afraid to make rulings on the spot. You're the DM, you need to make descisons rapidly, consitently and authoritatively (but not condescendingly) in order to be a really good DM.

 

[Shadowlore]

Hmm, instead of making the turning attempt to unlock a magical property of the door, you could have just said the area was consecrated and had a magical lock that only allows dwarves to pass through (which the rogue could try to bypass). Then the door could have been warded using the rules from Defenders of the Faith, which the Rogue would not be able to bypass since it is neither a property of a magical device or a lock.

Just a thought.

"a magical lock"
A lock is a lock, magical or otherwise. Wardings can (generally) be overcome by will saves, IIRC. But it has been a long time since read in the now outdated DoTF. That said, I think you are referring to Hallowed areas, not Consecrated ones, though neither spell would explicitly provide what you are saying.

Ahh there it is, warding. Yup, UMD would let you bypass the warding. The act of warding makes the door/lock a magical device activiated by chanelling. Chanelling is a class feature so it can be emulated because you use class features combined with alignement to bypass the ward. None of these will block a UMD user of sufficient skill, or any NPC/PC with sufficient will saves. Either it is a device (UMD) like a warded door, or it is a spell effect (Will save) like protection from <x>.

Think about it. if there was a sure-fire way to keep all non-[alignment/class/race] from a given area, everyplace that it mattered would have it. Which would be any place of interest/value to potential enemies, enemies, and especially adventurers. There is no perfect "lock".

 

[Shadowlore]

I take Use Magic Device at Face Value.
In your case, I'd say that the PC needed to have a Source of Positive Energy in additon to his UMD check. (Say a Potion of Healing smeared over the door to 'emulate' the positive energy burst of a turning attempt).

That would be a helluva house rule, and it would be opposition to the specific example of UMD in the PHB.

The class feature of Turn undead (Channelling more broadly describes) does not say you create positive energy, it says you channel it. Emulating the class feature provides the channeling; the positive energy is around you (ind generally a part of you) and you merely provide a conduit for it.

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

That would be a helluva house rule, and it would be opposition to the specific example of UMD in the PHB.

The class feature of Turn undead (Channelling more broadly describes) does not say you create positive energy, it says you channel it. Emulating the class feature provides the channeling; the positive energy is around you (ind generally a part of you) and you merely provide a conduit for it.

Not Really (Although few of my players take UMD. We have such a large group & so many Arcane/Divine PC's, UMD becomes more like Disable Device, as the PC only gets to use it when confronting something new, as magic gear he would need to use UMD for tend to wind up with PC's who have it as a class feature, no roll required).

If the UMD roll in question is one not mentioned in the PHB, I give a minimum of 25 (activate blindly) +5 DC (for things that seem 'easy', but I generally give +10 or more to the DC). (Plus the 'special tools' qualifier, much like Open Lock requires some sort of lock-pick before you can use it).

As for Channeling Positive Energy. That's what the Healing Potion is for. In order for the rogue to mimic a Turn Attempt, he needs a source of Concentrated Positive Energy. He would use the Healing Potion in such a way as to mimic a Turning's Channeled Burst of Positive Energy.

Here's how I would have Ruled in this Example.

1. The character would need to make a UMD check to Emulate being a Dwarf (Assuming he wasn't one to begin with). DC 25 (PHB). You may try this till you succeed or you roll a 1.

2. A UMD check to Emulate an Alignment (If the Portal was keyed to one, the posters seems to inicate LG, which a rogue/bard probablly isn't). DC 30 (PHB). You may try this till you succeed or you roll a 1.

3. A UMD Check DC 30 (Activate Blindly's 25 +5). If this is successful, I'd tell the PC he need's to have a concentrated source/focus of Positive Energy to 'Fool' the door into believing he's just spent a Turning Attempt. My players are pretty good about this & would go for a potion, wand, scroll, etc. You may try till you succeed (or roll a one. Each attempt still requires a source of concentrated Positive Energy.

4. For flavor, I'd describe it like " You take the lit tourch, fill your mouth with so much of the healing potion you resemble a squirrel upon the Para-elmental Plane of Infinite Nuts and expel it through the lit torch. As the potion hits the tourch, the flame turns blue & a massive cloud of blue mist hits the door. Upon which it slowly opens upon its hinges.


See. Not a Real Likely scenerio, but possible. I tend to view Use Magic Device more as Emulate Macgyver. Its more fun that way.

Edit: I gues you can Re-try UMD Checks unitl you succeed or you roll a 1. Editing my above sceneriao to reflect that.

 

[Krelios]

A door is not a magical item that the rogue possesses. He cannot use UMD on it at all.