Use Magic Device

[Hypersmurf]

Emulate class feature.

But to activate a staff, you only need the spell on your class list, and the existence of a separate task for activating a staff suggests that "spell list" is not a class feature that can be separately emulated by the Emulate Class Feature task.

-Hyp.

 

[kjenks]

But to activate a staff, you only need the spell on your class list, and the existence of a separate task for activating a staff suggests that "spell list" is not a class feature that can be separately emulated by the Emulate Class Feature task.

-Hyp.

I don't think "spell list" is the class feature to be emulated by the second UMD check; I think "caster level" is the class feature to be emulated.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I don't think "spell list" is the class feature to be emulated by the second UMD check; I think "caster level" is the class feature to be emulated.

You don't need a caster level to activate a staff.

"Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20."

Since you don't 'need to use [caster level] to activate' the magic item, it doesn't come under the 'in the case' clause, so your effective level in the emulated class does not equal your Use Magic Device check result minus 20.

-Hyp.

 

[kjenks]

You don't need a caster level to activate a staff.

Two UMD checks. One to activate the staff, another to Emulate Class Feature, setting the caster level.

And another, if you want, to emulate a high ability score, setting the save DC.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Two UMD checks. One to activate the staff, another to Emulate Class Feature, setting the caster level.

And another, if you want, to emulate a high ability score, setting the save DC.

The second and third checks are unnecessary to activate the staff, and therefore should not be allowed. (The rules on this point are not as clear as they could be, but the language suggests it, and the alternative is ripe for abuse...as you have shown.)

 

[Hypersmurf]

Two UMD checks. One to activate the staff, another to Emulate Class Feature, setting the caster level.

And another, if you want, to emulate a high ability score, setting the save DC.

Emulating the class feature is if you need, not if you want. And you don't need.

Emulating an ability score is if you're activating a scroll, not a staff. And you aren't.

-Hyp.

 

[kjenks]

Emulating the class feature is if you need, not if you want. And you don't need.

Emulating an ability score is if you're activating a scroll, not a staff. And you aren't.

-Hyp.

Where do you see those rules? Your PH must be a different printing from mine.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Where do you see those rules?

... under 'Use Magic Device'?

Emulate an Ability Score: To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you’re emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don’t need to make this check.

When do you have an effective ability score using UMD? When you're trying to cast a spell from a scroll. Not a staff.

Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. [Lidda example]

This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature.

If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).

When do you have an effective level using UMD? "In this case". Which case? When you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. You don't need to emulate a caster level to activate a staff, so activating a staff is not "in this case".

Does your PHB have different wording?

-Hyp.

 

[Sithobi1]

Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).

Emphasis mine.

 

[kjenks]

I'm still not seeing what you're talking about, Hypersmurf. Why can't you emulate an ability score when activating a staff? Because the example and the text in parenthesis discuss scrolls?

Look at each sentence in turn:

"Emulate an Ability Score:" -- A title that supports my view.

"To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells)." -- A reminder of the basic rules for activating a scroll. Says nothing, really, about UMD. Or staffs.

"Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you’re emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15." -- Parenthetical phrases are there to give examples or commentary, not to be a part of a sentence, so you should be able to read the sentence without the parenthetical phrase.

"If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don’t need to make this check." -- Which probably didn't need to be said, but they said it anyway.