Uses for Time Stop?

[Piratecat]

Jack Smith already covered most of it, but let's not forget wingspan. The gate is only 20 ft. wide. Unlike a mage on a broomstick, a dragon has wings which are really quite strong, and which extend at minimum 5 ft. (since even a Medium dragon can make wing attacks at 5 ft.). A Huge dragon is already 15 ft. wide before wings are added.

Cheers, -- N

I guess we're going there!

Back in 3e (not 3.5), when this happened, haste granted an extra standard action. That's how the readying was handled. In addition, I was using Rich Burlew's runty black dragon assassin which is only size large and flies at 150' (poor, with no wingover feat). While I certainly don't mind giving players the benefit of the doubt when they have a clever plan and it makes the game more fun for everyone, this wasn't really one of those cases. I couldn't find any reason other than spite or pure DM fiat to say that their plan wouldn't work, and there was no call for that at all.

EDIT: There's one exception to what I just typed. At the time I considered Jack's very correct point that flying dragons can stop dead in their tracks if they're willing to fall out of the sky. I decided not to because it didn't fit in with the feel of the game I was running; it didn't seem realistic to me that the dragon could legitimately avoid a gate placed inches in front of him during a time stop, and I wanted to reward my players for thinking creatively. I have no doubt that not everyone would have made that call. That's okay, too.

 

[Nifft]

If the dragon was only size Large, I can't complain about wingspan. I could say something about how inches from the Dragon's nose is still at least 10 ft. from his body thanks to the bite attack's reach, but really, that's only relevant if you didn't want it to work.

I decided not to because it didn't fit in with the feel of the game I was running; it didn't seem realistic to me that the dragon could legitimately avoid a gate placed inches in front of him during a time stop, and I wanted to reward my players for thinking creatively. I have no doubt that not everyone would have made that call. That's okay, too.

That's really the most important thing. Every DM should have enough rules justification to run the game he wants. If your players aren't the sort to use the same trick over and over, there's not necessarily a need to be strict with the rules.

In my game, I'd probably have the PC spend a Fate Point (or something similarly rare) to ensure the success of a trick like this, which (at the time) I would be uncertain if I should generally allow.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Jack Simth]

Guh! That's what I get for not using cut & paste. :|

Sorry, Mr. Simth.

Cheers, -- N

No need - it's actually a form of psyche test - I'm passively checking people's observational skills. Plus, it cuts down on the PM's of people I don't actually want to talk to on a lot of forums. I'll generally respond to either, and not actually mention it unless someone else points out the discrepancy.

EDIT: There's one exception to what I just typed. At the time I considered Jack's very correct point that flying dragons can stop dead in their tracks if they're willing to fall out of the sky. I decided not to because it didn't fit in with the feel of the game I was running; it didn't seem realistic to me that the dragon could legitimately avoid a gate placed inches in front of him during a time stop, and I wanted to reward my players for thinking creatively. I have no doubt that not everyone would have made that call. That's okay, too.

In general, you want there to be some form of save for all the "die" effects (which that was). Maybe not the first time when it's pure clever and unexpected, by definitely by the second, ESPECIALLY as it was the same dragon - after all, dragon's aren't exactly known for being stupid.

See, I can do the same thing to a player - open a Gate directly underneath someone's feet (for anything that can fit through, and is not currently flying). I'm doing this on my turn, so they fall through. If need be, I can Time Stop, Quickened Grease the floor, Reverse Gravity in the area my target is standing, and open a horizontal Gate above them; three component spells, one of which is Quickened, so I can do this with a roll of 1 on the Time Stop duration. Anything that does not currently have the ability to fly is now on a plane and specific location of my choosing - and as there's some pretty hostile places in the D&D multiverse, this pretty much means they're dead.

This type of thing needs some kind of save to avoid - in this case, it's a matter of reacting, so reflex is appropriate. Set the DC for the caster based on the 9th level spell (Gate) in use, and you're good to go - it's balanced with a lot of other effects out there, and in the case of the Flying Dragon, even on a successful save, he pretty much loses his actions (and a lot of hp, potentially) that round due to the fall - which is a useful secondary effect for a successful save vs. a 9th level single-target save or lose.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Back in 3e (not 3.5), when this happened, haste granted an extra standard action. That's how the readying was handled. In addition, I was using Rich Burlew's runty black dragon assassin which is only size large and flies at 150' (poor, with no wingover feat).

Ah, 3.0 haste, you didn't say that at first! You obviously didn't have Draco at the time, but for the record a Large black dragon has a wingspan of 18-36ft, so it's likely he would not fit through the gate without meaning to.

EDIT: There's one exception to what I just typed. At the time I considered Jack's very correct point that flying dragons can stop dead in their tracks if they're willing to fall out of the sky. I decided not to because it didn't fit in with the feel of the game I was running; it didn't seem realistic to me that the dragon could legitimately avoid a gate placed inches in front of him during a time stop, and I wanted to reward my players for thinking creatively. I have no doubt that not everyone would have made that call. That's okay, too.

The instant-stop-fall is a little bit of a stretch, I agree. I see no problem with using fly-by attack in reaction to the gate and casting dim door, however, if he hadn't already burned a std action.

 

[Piratecat]

Ironically, this came up in the game last night. The PCs are about to be attacked by a vermiurge, one of those CR 24 epic bugs. The alienist suggested time stop / gate to Carceri; I reminded him that this wasn't a clumsy dragon, and was far from certain to work. He assumed the same and took it in stride.

One nice use of time stop is to control the battlefield. Timestop + solid fog + cloudkill is nice. So is time stop + rock to mud, followed by a readied action to turn the mud back into rock once everyone falls into it.

 

[RangerWickett]

I never thought of the Gate trick. That's kinda fun.

I've never had a PC with time stop, but I did have a dwarf metamagic battle sorcerer with arcane thesis - magic missile (oh, the joy of splat books) who at 10th level could emulate the 'death blossom' from The Last Starfighter. First round of combat, cast a twinned empowered still magic missile, doing something like 48 nigh-unblockable damage to one opponent, and then follow up with celerity to do it again. It was a real good way for killing dramatic tension.

I'm really not experienced on how such high-level fights go, but I figure it's really hard to last more than 3 rounds anyway. Here's an excerpt from my original draft idea of the climax fight for War of the Burning Sky, though I never had a chance to playtest it, and I don't think it'll be in the actual 12th adventure:

Leska (LE human wizard 5/cleric 3/mystic theurge 10/archmage 4/loremaster 4) has used three metamagic rods of quicken spell to prepare an array of magic, taking advantage of her multispell feat to cast up to three spells per round. She has already cast resist energy for two energy types she knows the heroes use, mind blank, and moment of prescience. At the start of combat she uses her prescient +18 insight bonus to her initiative check, which gives her a good chance of going first. She then casts a quickened crushing grasp on anyone who looks like they might disrupt her spellcasting, then a quickened time stop.

During the time stop she casts mostly defensive spells (spell turning, quickened fire shield, quickened mage’s sword in round one; quickened true seeing, quickened antilife shell, and summon monster IX for an elder fire elemental in round two; then less critical ones if she gets the chance, such as greater arcane sight, shield, and fly), and when the spell ends she unleashes her magical fury upon the heroes.

She casts her epic spell, Desertion of the Blade, in the first round of combat (since when her quickened time stop ends, it’s still her turn), turning the heroes’ magic items against them. Thereafter she primarily saves her standard action for counterspelling, while hurling multiple quickened fireballs, magic missiles, and telekinesis spells each round. She takes advantage of her archmage mastery of energy and shaping abilities to have the fireballs deal whatever damage the heroes are most vulnerable to, without hitting any of her allies.


Epic Spell – Desertion of the Blade
Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: n/a
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft.+10 ft./level)
Targets: 1 creature/level, all of which must be within 60 ft. of each other
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

You turn the possessions of your enemies against them, awakening a spark of malevolent sentience in even the most mundane magic items. Each round, each affected creature must make a Will save. Those who fail are beset by their own gear, taking 1d6 points of damage per magic item worn (maximum 12d6). This only includes items that take up body slots, not potions, scrolls, ioun stones, and the like.

Worn magical armor tugs at the wearer, making a bull rush attempt with a bonus equal to its armor bonus (so +5 full plate gets a +13 bonus). Magic weapons attack their holder with an attack bonus of your caster level + your prime ability score modifier + 3 (+30 in Leska’s case). Held items which cast spells, such as wands and staves, cast their spells so as best to harm their wielder. Other effects may occur, at your discretion.

Affected creatures must make a new save each round, even if they previously succeeded.

Intelligent magic items and artifacts are unaffected.

That, plus dynamic terrain, her allies, and potentially some of the PCs' allies turning on them would have made for a good ending, I think.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Time Stop
Round 1: Fly or if already flying go to round 2. if just cast fly move high above the target.
Round 2: Fly above them as high as you want, cast prismastic sphere.
Round 3: Reverse Gravity, fly away out of range.

Time Stop lasts at least 2 rounds so works best if already flying.

The trick is Reverse Gravity has no save if nothing to hold on to (and warriors like fighters usually don't have free hands due to weaponry/shields if applicable).
o they fly through the Prismatoic Sphere hitting every color, but reverse gravity can't function through the sphere so they fall. If they are sent to another plane: the trick ends. Otherwise...
Than Reverse Gravity functions again once below sphere: so they fly up into it. But than they fall, so they fly up, so they fall, so they fly, up.

They either lasts till duration of sphere/reverse gravity, stoned, die, or plane shifted. Remember, sphere makes you hit every color if going through it (unlike Prismatic Spray).

 

[Quartz]

This can be easily countered by Feather Fall, which can be cast even if the target doesn't have a readied action.

 

[Infiniti2000]

This can be easily countered by Feather Fall, which can be cast even if the target doesn't have a readied action.

But not if the victim is flat-footed.