Using Action Points in a "Vanilla" DND Campaign

[dreaded_beast]

I was thinking of incorporating the Action Point rules from the Eberron campaign into my generic Greyhawk campaign.

1. Will it unbalance a 'vanilla' DND game by doing so, in your opinion?

2. The Action Point rules state that there is a maximum amount that a character can have per level. Would it be unbalancing to allow the players to keep an unlimited amount of action points per level?

3. Any other 'balanced' alternatives to Action Points?

 

[Psimancer]

1) I run them in my Greyhawk campaign, and they work okay (see below).

2) I wouldn’t. You always get one player that hordes them and then in the climactic battle will use one every round.

3) Not really. If anything, I find the Eberron Action Point system a little… mundane. I have been toying around with the idea of allowing a re-roll instead of the bonus d6. Or maybe a choice between re-roll and extra die… Also, look at Unearthed Arcana for additional uses of the Action Point

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I used action points before ebberon in a D&D game. (they first appeared in d20 modern to my knowledge). The only rule additional rule we used for them was that you couldn't save action points from level to level. In my current D&D game I give PCs action points of 5+cha. mod. Also I give action points the major villains or to NPCs (villains or otherwise) who are meant to be equals of the PCs.
I also now allow my PCs to add the extra d6 from a spent action point to their AC against one attack.

Why would it unbalance a vanilla game if it doesn't unbalance ebberon?

 

[FireLance]

I was thinking of incorporating the Action Point rules from the Eberron campaign into my generic Greyhawk campaign.

1. Will it unbalance a 'vanilla' DND game by doing so, in your opinion?

2. The Action Point rules state that there is a maximum amount that a character can have per level. Would it be unbalancing to allow the players to keep an unlimited amount of action points per level?

3. Any other 'balanced' alternatives to Action Points?

Depends on what you're trying to do with action points, and what sort of balance you are trying to achieve. Action points give PCs a bit of extra advantage when they feel they need it. Such PCs will obviously be better able to survive encounters and overcome challenges than identical PCs without action points. Since all PCs can use action points, it doesn't affect the balance of PC vs PC very much, although some classes may get more use out of action points than others. For example, the Eberron rules allow PCs with some class abilities that can be used a limited number of times per day (e.g. smite evil, stunning fist, bardic music) to use the ability one more time by spending two action points.

Action points do tip the balance of PC vs challenges in favor of the PCs. If you're the type of DM that gets upset when the PCs overcome your challenges "too easily", you shouldn't use action points.

I prefer not to allow action points to carry over from level to level as it encourages the PCs to use them. I generally favor a style of play that encourages the PCs to use their cool abilities instead of hoarding them (this also affects the way I deal with equipment, for example ).

If you just want to insulate PCs from getting killed by one unlucky roll, some sort of "reroll point" system allowing the PC to reroll a failed saving throw, maybe one reroll point per level, which can be accumulated if unspent, would be more what you are looking for.

 

[Klaus]

Psimancer -> The extra dice are, in effect, re-rolls. You roll more dice and pick the best o' the bunch.

Dreaded_Beast -> d20 Modern and Unearthed Arcana allow for unspent Action Points to carry over to the next level, so if your character never spent an Action Point during his entire career, he'd arrive at 20th level with a bajillion points. Only Eberron has a "reset" mechanic to ensure that characters don't hoard their Action Points.

Unearthed Arcana suggests that the DM consider Action Points to be magic items worth 100 gp per character level, and adjust the treasure accordingly (a 2nd level character usually has 900gp, with action points he'd have only 700gp). You might want to look into that.

 

[Quasqueton]

I have been toying around with the idea of allowing a re-roll instead of the bonus d6.

I give PCs "Luck Points" that can be used to reroll one die. They get one to start, and gain another at each level up; they stay until used, but once used, is forever gone.

The purpose of me doing this is to prevent the death-by-one-bad-roll syndrome. I'd rather the PCs survive and win a major battle due to Luck Points than to have a PC death or a TPK.

A few game sessions ago, the party encountered a beast that kills with a gaze attack. One PC failed her save and would have died, in the middle of the wilderness, with no way back into the game for a couple more game sessions (probably). She knows she survived that encounter only by the Luck Point (called "divine intervention", "special blessing", "personal fortune", "wyrd", whatever), and the encounter was memorable even without a death.

I've seen Players use the LP to reroll a save (saved the PC's life), reroll a Concentration check (possibly saved a TPK), reroll a Heal check to stabalize a fallen PC (saved the PC's life), reroll an attack roll (wasn't life threatening).

The only odd thing when you have a naturally lucky Player. I have one Player who at 8th level still has 7 of her Luck Points. The other 8th-level PCs have only 3 or 4 LPs.

As a Player, there have been many times I wish my PC had LP to use. I don't regret using LP in my game, in the way I'm using them.

Quasqueton

 

[Scion]

I simply hate the 'refresh per level' abilities.

To me it would be just as bad to give a caster type X spell levels of spells and they will only get more with level up or a fighter type only Y hp before next level, better hope you get it in time!

I use a slightly modified system and it gives points on a per day basis.

Some people still hoard them and use few, some used the stat (I based it off of 1/2 level + cha mod, min 1) as a dump stat and so have so few they forget about them, others have built a character in mind to get a decent amount and use as many as possible.

Definately not unbalancing. Most of the time they are actually wasted as the roll wasnt important or they failed anyway.

But sometimes, usually when it is really important, they can pull out some amazing recoveries or pull off some incredible stunts. Which, to me, is exactly why I put them in the game in the first place.

No one has to worry about buying feats which cannot be used because they havent leveled up in awhile (sometimes we go for 7 or 8 sessions without leveling.. even with useing them sparsley there is no way to go for that amount of time and still have them right when you need them, there are just too many times when 'need' seems to be there).

So, I like them. When they are used like other game mechanics and balanced as such. It even helps make cha a slightly more important stat. I like giving the players hard choices

 

[DanMcS]

Dreaded_Beast -> d20 Modern and Unearthed Arcana allow for unspent Action Points to carry over to the next level, so if your character never spent an Action Point during his entire career, he'd arrive at 20th level with a bajillion points. Only Eberron has a "reset" mechanic to ensure that characters don't hoard their Action Points.

No, d20 modern has the same max pool size mechanic as eberron. It wasn't stated well or clearly in the rules, but they've clarified it since then.

d20 modern could really use another edition, to catch it up with the 3.5 rules and clear up some textual problems, but there probably aren't the sales to justify it.

 

[Nebulous]

I've toyed a lot with Action Points, based on the Grim Tales model. I used them first in a CoC action/horror campaign. I haven't used them a whole lot yet in DnD, but i'm planning to.

In my campaigns, AP's are extremely dynamic and can achieve the following things:

1) confirm a critical hit
2) boost a die roll by d6
3) emulate a feat (if you don't meet the prerequisite, it costs an extra point per prereq.)
4) stunts and special maneuvers
5) confirm a critical hit or failure against PC's (they're rewarded an AP)

6) there's more but i'm blanking right now...those were the main ones.

For me, it has been a really interesting way to experiment with feats and special abilities that players and monsters don't always have. Why couldn't a player Quick Draw for one round? Why couldn't a giant use Awesome Blow for one round? (and reward a player with an AP because the monster used a phantom feat?) I haven't had the problem of players hoarding them all, but i can see that happening. I don't use a cap (yet) because it hasn't been an issue, but i'm sure someone would abuse it eventually.

 

[frankthedm]

Action points that are earned "for leveling up" are a bad idea that increases the amount of "player entitlement" that poisons 3.#E.

"Hero" or "Fate" points awarded for grand deeds of selflessness are a much better system.