Using beyond the wall's magic system in 5e

[Tony Vargas]

Uh... some classes are a little more dependent on their spellcasting ability to be effective, no?

Some have a lot more spellcasting ability, certainly. But even a full caster has cantrips & skills when he's out of slots.

A Ranger limited to 1st and 2nd level spells isn't nearly as handicapped as a wizard limited to 1st and 2nd level spells.

The proposed system wouldn't limit characters to 1st & 2nd level spells. It'd just limit those higher level spells to long ritual casting.

Such casters would still be contributing in combat via cantrips, just less likely to seize the spotlight with only 1st & 2nd level spells in combat, even if they get to up-cast them (though an up-cast Sleep or Charm Person wouldn't exactly be nothing). But, with the rarity and power of high-level rituals out of combat, they'd be seizing the spotlight quite dramatically when they can bring one into play.

Actually, you know what? The easiest way to implement Beyond The Wall, with the fewest changes to the 5E system, would be-

1. Allow all spellcasters to cast Prestidigitation, Druidcraft, etc. with an Arcana/Nature/Religion check.
2. Cap advancement in any spellcaster class to the level prior to getting 3rd level spells.
3. Allow that PCs with Ritual Caster have access to ritual spells based on character level, not class level.
4. Specify that all spells of 3rd level and above are Rituals with 1 hour/level casting time.

Don't see the point of 2 & 3. Why force the complexity of multi-classing on what promises to be a simpler variant?

 

[Irda Ranger]

Don't see the point of 2 & 3. Why force the complexity of multi-classing on what promises to be a simpler variant?

So playing a caster doesn't suck.

You seem uninterested in maintaining fairness and balance between your players, but I'm not uninterested. I want to make sure that the guy who chooses to play a caster isn't punished for that choice.

If you want to limit casters to cantrips and 1st-2nd level spells, you can either (1) allow casters to keep leveling up but give them something else for it, or (2) just cap the level advancement and have them level up in fighter or rogue instead.

My first post (allowing all 1st and 2nd level spells to scale with character level) was an attempt at option 1, and my second post (just capping advancement) was a stab at option 2.

 

[Satyrn]

So playing a caster doesn't suck.

You seem uninterested in maintaining fairness and balance between your players, but I'm not uninterested. I want to make sure that the guy who chooses to play a caster isn't punished for that choice.

If you want to limit casters to cantrips and 1st-2nd level spells, you can either (1) allow casters to keep leveling up but give them something else for it, or (2) just cap the level advancement and have them level up in fighter or rogue instead.

My first post (allowing all 1st and 2nd level spells to scale with character level) was an attempt at option 1, and my second post (just capping advancement) was a stab at option 2.

But option 2 is easily replaced by option 0: let the player make that decision for himself.

Just give him a heads up that you think he'll be significantly worse off power-wise than the weakest martial cbaracter . . . . but is this even true? Certainly 2nd level spells are weaker than 4th level spells, but is a wizard spamming low level spells actually weaker than fighter when they're both at 7th level? Or when they're 15th?

The wizard's cantrips are still decent, right? And upcast magic missiles are doing lots of guaranteed damage. Plus, the wizard's low level utility spells are still giving lots of versatility in exploration and social situations.

I don't see it as a given that this wizard won't be effective in the game - it should at least be tested, I think.

 

[Tony Vargas]

So playing a caster doesn't suck.
You seem uninterested in maintaining fairness and balance between your players, but I'm not uninterested.

On the contrary, variants like this probably bring casters into closer balance with the few non-casting options. Balance in 5e is rough, and based on spotlight time, a variant like this still puts casters in the spotlight reasonably often.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

It also might be worth it to have a sliding scale for ritual casting times. When you can cast a 3rd level spell, the ritual takes an hour, but when you could cast a 4th level spell, the 3rd level spell takes 30 minutes, 15 minutes when you could cast a 5th, 10 minutes when you could cast a 6th, 5 minutes for when you could cast a 7th, 1 minute for when you could cast an 8th, and 1 round when you can cast a 9th.