Using Bucklers without proficiency

[Davek]

I have started noticing my players using bucklers without proficiency. All they do is get masterwork or better and the Armor Check penalty becomes 0, so in effect there is no penalty to using them without having proficiency.

Something seems wrong with this. Am I interpreting the rules wrong, or missing something?

 

[Aaron2]

Nope. That's the way it is. How do you have so many players without shield proficiency?


Aaron

 

[Davek]

Rogues and Sorcerors.

I am thinking to institute a -1 minimum penalty for any non-proficiency. Does that sound reasonable?

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Rogues and Sorcerors.

I am thinking to institute a -1 minimum penalty for any non-proficiency. Does that sound reasonable?

Unreasonable? No. Unnecessary? You bet.

Let it go. There's no problem here. Don't forget that 5% arcane spell failure chance for the sorcerers you mentioned, though.

 

[nimisgod]

Don't forget the fact that they can't use somatic components with the hand w/ the buckler. Somatic components use at least one hand. So if they are carrying something with one hand and a buckler with the other, they can't use somatic components.

Add to that the aforementioned spell failure chance.

 

[Davek]

It concerns me more with the rogues. If they have +1 Bucklers, that increases their AC by 2, with no penalties. Not bad considering they are not trained in it's use.

 

[Destil]

Don't forget the fact that they can't use somatic components with the hand w/ the buckler. Somatic components use at least one hand. So if they are carrying something with one hand and a buckler with the other, they can't use somatic components.

Add to that the aforementioned spell failure chance.

The buckler straps to the arm, though, unlike other shields. You could rule that they don't receve the AC bonus from the buckler during a round they use that hand to for somatic components (like a weapon attack), though that's a house rule...

 

[nimisgod]

My comment about being unable to use somatic components with a buckler was based upon a Sage ruling (if that actually means anything).

On a unrelated side note, I think some fencers actually grasp the buckler with the hand. Supposedly, its inferior to having a parrying dagger (because the dagger is useful in close range)

Can a spellcaster, arcane or divine, cast a spell requiring
somatic or material components if he has a weapon in one
hand and a buckler in the other? A small shield? A large
shield?
No in all cases. You must have at least one free hand to use a
somatic component (see page 151 in the Player’s Handbook).
You could drop the weapon (or the buckler or shield) as a free
action and then cast the spell.

 

[mmu1]

Don't forget the fact that they can't use somatic components with the hand w/ the buckler. Somatic components use at least one hand. So if they are carrying something with one hand and a buckler with the other, they can't use somatic components.

Add to that the aforementioned spell failure chance.

In any game I played in or DMed, Clerics routinely use spells with somatic and material components while juggling a large shield, a mace and/or a holy symbol.

Same story with Wizards/Sorcerers and Quarterstaffs or wands.

To enforce these rules the way you describe it is to make spellcasters a real pain in the ass to play...

Sage Advice nonwithstanding - the Sage has a long history of wrong rulings, as well as very bad ones, because of trying to give the shortest answer rather than the best answer...

 

[DMauricio]

On a unrelated side note, I think some fencers actually grasp the buckler with the hand. Supposedly, its inferior to having a parrying dagger (because the dagger is useful in close range)

[/i]

Actually, some historical fencing masters would have disagreed.
Mind you, that's for another forum.

Back on topic.

From the SRD:
----
Normal: A character who is using a shield with which he or she is not proficient suffers the shield?s armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all skill rolls that involve moving, including Ride.
----

I'd take that to include concentration checks (but I suppose a masterwork version of a buckler would have a -0 penalty, so that would be a moot point)

So, in my games... no penalty for spending the extra money to buy a masterwork buckler (that causes a spell failure chance, anyway)