Using IH/Grim Tales for medieval fantasy games using the Cthulhu Mythos and styles

[Odhanan]

I was just reading through the Cthulhu Preservations Society and thought about this.

From the the get-go, without having read GT yet but knowing the IH ruleset, I would think that IH would be excellent for a pulp-action medieval fantasy around the Cthulhu Mythos.

Would Grim Tales be useful/accurate for a more medieval, Cadfael-like Cthulhu game?

Since the beginning with the publications of IH and GT I am thinking of their complementarity on the "less-magic-heavy-than-D&D" bracket. Opinions, suggestions? Discuss!

 

[GlassJaw]

GT and IH are not interchangeable. They feel quite different. IMO, GT is a much better fit for a Cthulhu-esque game.

While both systems are low on the magic, IH still has a significant "D&D" feel. Heck, it has virtually the same power level. Sure there are no magic items but who needs them when every class got a huge power boost? It's semantics. I also don't think IH captures the dark tone of a Cthulhu campaign.

GT on the other hand is low-magic and feels like it. There is a massive damage system, the magic system is harsh, and the characters are highly customizable. When I think of a low-magic setting, I usually want a system that is more open and doesn't require specific archtypes. GT fits that bill. By its very nature, it doesn't lend itself to any specific genre.

 

[Stormborn]

I agree that GT lends itself to Cthullu better than IH, I don't think that IH and Cthullu are incompatible. It all depends on just how horrific you want your game. IF you play it more like a Conan Sword n Sorcery game where the brave heroes face off against evil cultists summoning elder horrors I think you will be fine. You could even add the San rules from d20 CoC or Unearthed Arcana or just use Will as a Fear save. Or even show the effects of madness and insanity in others but our heroes seem somehow immune due to their great resolve/faith/character.

 

[KaosDevice]

You might check out Cthulhu-Dark Ages for a reference on the matter as well. I thought it was very well done.

 

[Odhanan]

GT and IH are not interchangeable. They feel quite different. IMO, GT is a much better fit for a Cthulhu-esque game.

See, I think the paradigms are different but none of them is "better" than the other: One of the themes for the Swordlands of Iron Heroes (the basic setting) is to have characters in a new-born world facing the dark primitive and/or magically corrupted world surrounding them. The magic system is very comparable to Cthulhu's. Some of the art is so Cthulhu-esque it doesn't leave the shadow of a doubt (look at this). Mike Mearls was speaking of a very Cthulhu-esque approach to magic and monsters (magic is corrupted, rare and extremely dangerous, some monsters depicted are nothing but protoplasmic blobs that would have made HPL rave etc).

Saying one is better than the other for Cthulhu is like choosing, from my perspective, between Chaosium and d20 Cthulhu. My answer: I don't. They are ideal for different types of Cthulhu games. Chaosium Cthulhu for the "doomed loner in the Dark" approach (which is not the only style possible when treating of the mythos), d20 Cthulhu for an Indiana Jones, pulp approach (works great with Masks of Nyarlathotep, by the way).

Now think of IH as "d20 Cthulhu" and Grim Tales as a more "Chaosium Cthulhu":

Want your players in a "loner in the dark" game? Use Grim Tales.
Want your players in an "action pulp" game? Use Iron Heroes.

I'm getting a bit tired of the argument of IH vs. GT, personally. I hope you are as well so we can move on and get to the specifics of each style and how to represent them optimally with their relative system.

 

[GlassJaw]

I'm getting a bit tired of the argument of IH vs. GT, personally. I hope you are as well so we can move on and get to the specifics of each style and how to represent them optimally with their relative system.

Who's arguing?

My whole issue with IH is that, IMO, the mechanics don't match the feel it's trying to convey. For the style you described, I think you would be much better served by Conan actually. The Conan ruleset does a great job in capturing the sword & sorcery and dark feel of the stories.

IH feels like Saturday morning cartoons to me. All the classes and abilities are really over the top. I think feels more like a medieval fantasy supers ruleset actually.

I think it's pretty evident what I prefer but I'm not arguing that one is "better" than the other. Much of it has to do with personal preference.

 

[Odhanan]

Who's arguing?

(...)
IH feels like Saturday morning cartoons to me. (...)

I think it's pretty evident what I prefer but I'm not arguing that one is "better" than the other. Much of it has to do with personal preference.

Well, let's put it this way: I understand these are just your opinions, and thank you for acknowledging that. However, the way (and the frequency) in which you put it frustrates me greatly and can be a cause for flamewar (which I don't want to start). So maybe, please, you could just tone your criticism down so as to respect IH fans such as I? That would be great. Thanks in advance!



PS: I take it you actually read the IH rulebook? Just asking, because your opinions are surprising to me.

 

[Baragos]

You might want to take a look at Dark Legacies from Redspirepress.

It has a very Chthulhu-esque feel both in it's setting and in the rules...magic is something not meant to be know, at least by mankind, therefor causing slow insanity and destruction of the caster's body and mind.

Magic healing is almost non-existant, thereby making monsters (and combat as a whole) something to fear and approach with typical Chtulhu caution.

And the art work is terrifying...in a good way

 

[Ulrik]

One Conan short-story (The Vale of the Lost Women, IIRC) features a monster described as "...ultimate horror, upon black cosmic foulness born in night-black gulfs beyond the reach of a madman's wildest dreams." Conan charges it and hacks it to pieces, afterwards saying "Oh, they're nothing uncommon."

That's IH.

Howard's and Lovecraft's writings overlap somewhat. If your campaign is about slaying Horrors out of Space and Time, you're playing Conan. If your PCs get eaten by them, you're playing Chtulhu.

 

[Odhanan]

If your PCs get eaten by them, you're playing Chtulhu.

No. You are playing Call of Cthulhu just how Chaosium taught you to do so. This is very different:

When I use the term Medieval Cthulhu, I am not referring to Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu gameplay and style. I am speaking of the Cthulhu mythos and its literary styles (notice the -s): I'll change the title of the thread accordingly.

For the sake of the discussion (and I understand that thread starters have the ability to indicate what's in the subject or not of what they wanted to cover), I do not want to have discussions over the possibility of playing Cthulhu with this or that game (I think it's possible both with IH and GT in different styles - and indeed I played Cthulhu-esques adventures with D&D itself) and even less what would be a "proper" (i.e. exclusive) way of playing a Cthulhu-esque game.

I am asking how you think it can be done with IH or GT. If you do not think that is possible with one or the other, you are entitled to your opinion and free to create specific threads to debate this or that issue at length. But not here, please.