Using people as cover and bullet penetration in d20 modern

[D-rock]

And there is another problem droping hp for people don't nessessarily mean that they are getting hit, but whene you use them for cover(I'm talking about holding them in front of you not just a situation where they can possibly jump out of the way) every time that they get hit the bullet actually hits them. Although you would probably be moving around a bit so it might not matter, but what if you where just standing still.

 

[LostSoul]

Here is a suggestion:

Use concealment, the amount of which is based on whether or not you can see your target (somebody you can't see would have full concealment).

Apply damage to the target, using the cover's Hardness as DR.

Bam! You're done.

 

[Crothian]

Here is a suggestion:

Use concealment, the amount of which is based on whether or not you can see your target (somebody you can't see would have full concealment).

Apply damage to the target, using the cover's Hardness as DR.

Bam! You're done.

But that ignores things that can't be shoot through like a ince of concrete which only has hardness 8. Make it a foot thick, or even ten feet thick and the hardness doesn't change. Also, the human body has no hardness, yet sometimes bullets don't go through us.

 

[Gez]

Don't forget that some army rifles are designed to pierce a tank's armor and kill its driver.

Oh, and you don't need to make a hole big enough for you to squeeze through to destroy a door. You only need to destroy its lock.

A pierced door, likewise, is not necessarily destroyed. It will be a door with a bullethole in it, not a destroyed door. For this reason, I'm not sure basing penetration on hardness is the most realistic idea.

I would ignore hardness altogether and just consider that if you deal more hit points damage than the structure has for its thickness (or maybe a portion of this value), then the door is pierced and full damage are applied to whatever is behind. If damage is enough to actually remove hit points from the door (that is, damage beat the hardness), then the door is also weakened by the shot.

 

[LostSoul]

But that ignores things that can't be shoot through like a ince of concrete which only has hardness 8. Make it a foot thick, or even ten feet thick and the hardness doesn't change. Also, the human body has no hardness, yet sometimes bullets don't go through us.

Okay, multiply hardness for each inch. That foot of concrete would have 8x12 = 96 hardness. (I think you should be able to shoot through an inch of concrete or even steel on a good roll, but that's just me.) You could also alter the hardness if you don't like the way things work, giving all hardness scores a +2 or something if you're just trying to penetrate and not destroy.

Then have someone come up with a hardness for flesh. That way you can get a scene like that in "For Whom the Bell Tolls", where the guerillas kill their horses as cover from machine and rifle fire.

This rule seems decent because it builds on other existing rules and doesn't take much time to play out, except for checking the concealment and hardness charts.

 

[Trepelano]

Give the cover an absorption rating using the following formula:

thickness in inches X (hardness + 2)

If the cover is hit (using standard d20 rules to figure this) roll damage and apply it to the cover.

In addition - subtract the cover's absorption rating from the damage and apply any remainder to the intended target.

An inch of concrete absorbs 10 hp - a foot absorbs 120hp.

Either way - you can penetrate an object (or person) without destroying it.

The "2" above is there to give items that don't have a real "hardness" to still reduce damage and/or stop bullets. That number made need some adjusting.

Truly insubstantial material - like cloth, paper, or foam - should be treated as "concealment" - not cover.

How does this look?

 

[Trepelano]

Here is an example of the above formula.

Jason uses a goon for cover (gaining +4 to his AC) and the villain fires at him. The villian misses - but only due to Jason's adjusted AC - so the villian actually hits the goon.

The villian rolls damage and does 28 hp to the goon. The GM rules that the goon is 10 inches thick and calculates that he has an absorption rating of 20 (10 X (0+2) ). So the bullet travels through the goon and strikes Jason for 8 hp damage (28-8).

If the goon has less than 28 hp - he goes down, if he has more - then both he and Jason are still up. Note that the goon's absorption rating has no effect on the damage he took - he took the full 28 rolled.

If the cover had been 2 inches of concrete - it would have had the same absorption rating ( 2 X (8+2) ), and Jason would have still taken 8 hp damage. However the concrete barrier would have taken only 20 hp of damage (it still subtracts hardness to determine its damage). While it definitely has a bullet hole in it - the barrier may still be standing.

 

[Beric]

Why not just keep it simple.. if the shooter only misses by say 5 from the DC (I would think this would mean the bullet didnt go super wide). Then role a percentile if its 30 or less. The bullet goes through and the players takes 1/2 damage.

 

[Trepelano]

Oh pooh!

 

[D-rock]

Why not just keep it simple.. if the shooter only misses by say 5 from the DC (I would think this would mean the bullet didnt go super wide). Then role a percentile if its 30 or less. The bullet goes through and the players takes 1/2 damage.

This doesn't differentiate between the type of gun shot, and the amount of damage that is done doesn't matter with this. You could have 10 bullets that don't do more than 2 or 3 damage and still have 3 of them go through. On the other hand you could have 10 bullets that do 19 or 20 damage and still have 7 of them being blocked.