Using Shrink Item to affect undead?

[scott2978]

The spell description says it affects objects, and allows a will save instead of Fort. So could a wizard use it offensively against undead? I imagine a wizard using the Heighten Spell feat to make it a tough Will save or the undead gets made into a handy patch for his robes for a few days or weeks.

What do you think?

 

[Greenfield]

<Casting Dispel BS> Undead aren't "objects". At least, not until you kill them.

 

[Ahnehnois]

This is probably what the OP is getting at

A creature with no Constitution has no body or no metabolism. It is immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save unless the effect works on objects or is harmless.

So, some effects that affect objects do affect undead. However, since this spell is a will save, this line above does not apply, and since the spell itself clearly states:

Target: One touched object of up to 2 cu. ft./level

Shrink Item won't work on undead. Despite the non-con special rules, undead are creatures and not objects.

 

[Ashtagon]

That clause in Fort saving throws properly refers to spells that can affects objects or creatures. Consider these three cases:

• Spell affects creatures only, Fort save allowed: Undead are immune, as it is a Fort save spell that does not affect objects.
• Spell affects objects only, Fort save allowed: Undead are immune, as they are not a valid target for the spell.
• Spell affects creature or objects, Fort save allowed: Undead can be hurt by this spell.

 

[amerigoV]

The spell description says it affects objects, and allows a will save instead of Fort. So could a wizard use it offensively against undead? I imagine a wizard using the Heighten Spell feat to make it a tough Will save or the undead gets made into a handy patch for his robes for a few days or weeks.

What do you think?

Its that kinda of out of the box thinking that led to 3.x, unfortunately (every single thing in the world defined/descriptor/and rules bloat - and this is from someone that loved 3.x)

 

[Ahnehnois]

That clause in Fort saving throws properly refers to spells that can affects objects or creatures. Consider these three cases:

• Spell affects creatures only, Fort save allowed: Undead are immune, as it is a Fort save spell that does not affect objects.
• Spell affects objects only, Fort save allowed: Undead are immune, as they are not a valid target for the spell.
• Spell affects creature or objects, Fort save allowed: Undead can be hurt by this spell.

I gave up on trying to articulate that point, but yes, you're right about that. Undead are creatures, and if a spell allows a fort save, it affects undead only if it affects both objects and creatures.

 

[nijineko]

no. see above.

also consider that shrink item cannot affect magic items and similar. this happens with someone turned to stone or crystal. so long as they remain such, they have a faint magical transmutation aura, and count as a magic item.

oddly enough, if the size/weight is small enough a glove of shrinking would work. go figure.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Another thing is that even if you could (somehow) shrink an undead, most one the ones that are meaningfully dangerous are either ability draining or level draining, which is not dependent on size. If anything, they'd be more dangerous in some ways if they were really small.

 

[nijineko]

Another thing is that even if you could (somehow) shrink an undead, most one the ones that are meaningfully dangerous are either ability draining or level draining, which is not dependent on size. If anything, they'd be more dangerous in some ways if they were really small.

the answer for d&d viruses and diseases?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Not to mention that if it DID work, you'd have to touch the undead to affect them- not what you want to do with many of them...