Using Some d20 Modern feats in D&D

[Garnfellow]

OK, I had a bad experience trying to use Agile Riposte in my regular D&D game. But there are a few other d20 M feats that seem like they'd be pretty nifty in D&D -- so I thought I'd run this out here to see if anyone else has tried this.

The feats I'm really intrigued by are Defensive Martial Arts, Elusive Target, Unbalance Opponent, and Heroic Surge. Could/should/would these feats work in a straight up D&D game -- or am I just asking for trouble?

 

[Ranger REG]

It would definitely compensate for the shortage of martial arts feats in 3e.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

I'd be very interested in hearing people's thoughts on this, too. I've wondered the same thing.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I've done things the other way around... stealing feats from DnD to Modern. A lot of the feats, especially those releated to AC/Defense, need higher BAB requirements, since Modern has somewhat front-loaded Defense values.

 

[Voadam]

OK, I had a bad experience trying to use Agile Riposte in my regular D&D game. But there are a few other d20 M feats that seem like they'd be pretty nifty in D&D -- so I thought I'd run this out here to see if anyone else has tried this.

The feats I'm really intrigued by are Defensive Martial Arts, Elusive Target, Unbalance Opponent, and Heroic Surge. Could/should/would these feats work in a straight up D&D game -- or am I just asking for trouble?

Heroic surge shows up in a number of sourcebooks, Wheel of Time d20 as well for example. I think it is a reasonable feat, 1 round haste a certain number of times per day. We just use the 3.5 haste full attack extra attack, no extra movement or dodge bonus. The party paladin in our game has it as a feat.

Defensive martial arts is just a variant of dodge and is used in AU as well. I forget what elusive target and unbalance opponent do.

Agile riposte is the only real powerhouse feat I'd worry about. Maybe it should be epic for D&D because D&D has so much melee combat and can generate such high ACs?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Heroic surge shows up in a number of sourcebooks, Wheel of Time d20 as well for example. I think it is a reasonable feat, 1 round haste a certain number of times per day. We just use the 3.5 haste full attack extra attack, no extra movement or dodge bonus. The party paladin in our game has it as a feat.

Defensive martial arts is just a variant of dodge and is used in AU as well. I forget what elusive target and unbalance opponent do.

Elusive targets gives you an additional +4 Defense against ranged attacks when you are in melee.

Unbalance Opponent is a good Modern feat, but it gets more powerful with the higher-magic levels in Urban Arcana, and would probably be broken in DnD. In DnD, you often face opponents with high Strength bonuses (barbarians with their magic gear, dragons, giants, etc) and this feat lets you ignore their Strength bonus to attack rolls! Sweet!

Agile riposte is the only real powerhouse feat I'd worry about. Maybe it should be epic for D&D because D&D has so much melee combat and can generate such high ACs?

Well, I had a Martial Artist in Modern who should have taken the feat. With the combo of high BAB and high Defense (I had taken three Fast levels and a Strong level as well) I was hardly ever getting hit, and didn't miss too often, either. That would have given me lots of extra attacks. In Modern, Defense values can get really high, especially at the lower levels.

 

[Garnfellow]

Unbalance Opponent is a good Modern feat, but it gets more powerful with the higher-magic levels in Urban Arcana, and would probably be broken in DnD. In DnD, you often face opponents with high Strength bonuses (barbarians with their magic gear, dragons, giants, etc) and this feat lets you ignore their Strength bonus to attack rolls! Sweet!

Yeah, this is just the sort of "fine print" I'm looking for. A couple possibly mitigating things about Unbalance Opponent -- the benefit is limited to creatures up to one size larger and smaller than you, so Huge+ giants and dragons can still stomp away. Also, it only applies to "to hit" rolls, so damage still gets Strength bonuses.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I never noticed the size restriction. I did notice the damage still getting applied, though.

 

[Garnfellow]

OK, so here's where I am based on the feedback so far:

Unbalance Opponent, while cool, probably /is/ broken in D&D. Anyone want to mount a defense?

Defensive Martial Arts is probably fine in D&D (although I prefer the name used in Grim Tales for this feat: Defensive Expertise). As noted above, Arcana Unearthed has its Defensive Stance feat which pretty does the same thing (+1 dodge bonus against all melee attacks).

Similarly, the Elusive Target feat seems like it would be OK. (Again, AU has a parallel feat in Defensive Move.)

What about Heroic Surge, though? There aren't any D&D feats that make for a ready comparison. In AU, two different feats would be needed to really get the same effect -- Rapid Strike and Speed Burst. Is Heroic Surge too good for D&D?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

OK, so here's where I am based on the feedback so far:

Unbalance Opponent, while cool, probably /is/ broken in D&D. Anyone want to mount a defense?

Defensive Martial Arts is probably fine in D&D (although I prefer the name used in Grim Tales for this feat: Defensive Expertise). As noted above, Arcana Unearthed has its Defensive Stance feat which pretty does the same thing (+1 dodge bonus against all melee attacks).

Similarly, the Elusive Target feat seems like it would be OK. (Again, AU has a parallel feat in Defensive Move.)

What about Heroic Surge, though? There aren't any D&D feats that make for a ready comparison. In AU, two different feats would be needed to really get the same effect -- Rapid Strike and Speed Burst. Is Heroic Surge too good for D&D?

Heroic Surge might break spellcasters, even in D20 Modern. The closest analogue I've seen to 3.0 Haste is the 3.5 psionic power Schism, and even then it has a cost so high it's not any better than using Quicken Power. Well, except that it's slightly cheaper (by the equivalent of one spell level).