Using some or all of a power.

[WHW4]

I'm playing a wizard in an upcoming 4th campaign.

I understand that you can choose not to use certain effects from a power (Example: Thunderwave; I could do the damage but not use the push effect.)

Two questions:

1) Is the reverse true? Can I use the push effect without applying damage?

2) Can I use the effect (or damage) on SOME of the affected creatures and not others? In other words, creature A, B, and C are in the Blast area. I think creature A is fine where he is. Can I still push creatures B and C without pushing A and apply damage to them all? How about damaging one and pushing them all?

Thanks for any clarification. If anyone can cite rules text this would be MOST helpful. New DM will be running things and this is my first wizard.

 

[IanB]

You can't skip the damage, no. Actually the only reason you can skip pushing people is specific to forced movement - you can push/pull/slide people up to the amount specified, and the amount you pick can be zero. With other secondary effects like a daze or ongoing damage or something, you can't choose to leave those out.

 

[WalterKovacs]

I'm playing a wizard in an upcoming 4th campaign.

I understand that you can choose not to use certain effects from a power (Example: Thunderwave; I could do the damage but not use the push effect.)

Technically speaking, you have to do the push effect. However, in any situaion where you push, pull, slide or teleport something X squares, it's basically the equivalent of "up to X squares". Unless it explicitly says how many squares you have to move them (or where the thing needs to end up, like adjacent to you, or outside the burst, etc) you can always do less than the full forced movement. Just like "you move your speed" can be moving less than your speed.

Two questions:

1) Is the reverse true? Can I use the push effect without applying damage?

No, generally speaking, unless something says "may", you can't leave the effect out. Forced movement is an exception because of the rules about it which allow you to push "up to" X squares, with 0 being an appropriate choice.

 

[WHW4]

Thank you both, that clears it up considerably. I found the section under Forced Movement and a reread reinforced what you were both saying.

Here's another related question, which I believe I already know the answer to, but just to be sure: I "may" push a target up to X squares. Can I push affected creatures A, B, and C a different number of squares each?

 

[WalterKovacs]

Thank you both, that clears it up considerably. I found the section under Forced Movement and a reread reinforced what you were both saying.

Here's another related question, which I believe I already know the answer to, but just to be sure: I "may" push a target up to X squares. Can I push affected creatures A, B, and C a different number of squares each?

Yup.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Just a rminder:

You may not skip the damage part, but damage does not mean you actually inflict wounds, and if you drop an enemy to 0 hp, you may just make him unconscious or desorientated maybe with thunderwave.

 

[eamon]

IIRC there have been CS or FAQ rulings that you can leave out secondary attacks, if I'm not mistaken: that's not the case here, but you might be able leave out something in some power, in other words. Similarly, movement & shifting aren't required.

I think the common sense would be that if the effect somehow involves conscious choice on your part (that would not be damage), you can also choose no. It's up to the DM, but I think it's reasonable to let someone abort the power at such a point, but that's not a rule - just something that seems reasonable.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

IIRC there have been CS or FAQ rulings that you can leave out secondary attacks, if I'm not mistaken: that's not the case here, but you might be able leave out something in some power, in other words. Similarly, movement & shifting aren't required.

I think the common sense would be that if the effect somehow involves conscious choice on your part (that would not be damage), you can also choose no. It's up to the DM, but I think it's reasonable to let someone abort the power at such a point, but that's not a rule - just something that seems reasonable.

Yeah, secondary attacks are probably generally optional. There may be a few cases though where I'd consider them to be mandatory. Those would be situations where it is a natural consequence of an attack, like say a secondary poison attack. Those are pretty rare though.

Another thing to consider is page 42. Powers are fairly strictly defined in terms of what they do. That is nice because the DM can usually count on them not to provide some hugely advantageous off label use. That doesn't mean the DM HAS to limit them to what is on the printed page. My feeling is there are no 'powers' in game, just characters have knowledge that lets them do certain tricks and they have some that are well-rehearsed. The same character can do other things, but will need to make skill checks or whatever and things could go wrong. So if a player wants his character to use a power in an odd way the DM can let him make a skill check against some kind of DC (medium usually but it can vary a lot). Obviously you don't want to take this too far, but it can be a lot of fun.

 

[DracoSuave]

(or where the thing needs to end up, like adjacent to you, or outside the burst, etc)

I will even add that 0 squares is always an option. If the power says a specific square, you are allowed to not move them. What isnt allowed is 'almost there.' If its a specified location and you either dont have enough movement or dont want to, theres none at all.