D&D 5E Using Spell Point Variant Rule?

[Perun]

I was reading about the variant option of using Spell Points in the DMG (p. 288 I think...). I am thinking about suggesting it to our table and am curious if anyone here is using (or used and abandoned) the idea of spell points or their own version? If so, how did it work for your table?

I like the idea and don't mind the added complexity, but I do have some balance concerns:

At 20th-level with 133 points a character could have 19 5th-level slots, which seems really powerful.
As early as at 9th-level, a character could have 8 5th-level slots (with a point left over).
Even with Eldritch Invocations, the two 5th-level slots a warlock gets at the same level seem very underpowered by comparison.

So, is anyone using spell points? What issues (if any) have you come across?

Use it for our Sorcerer as opposed to spell slots. Has been working very well. It is kept separate from the Sorcery Points. Has not out shined the other spell caster.

I'm playing an 8th-level sorcerer in a campaign, using spell points. Unlike ScuroNotte, however, we pool spell points and sorcery points together. It has provided some versatility to the sorcerer, but it doesn't feel as a significant power-boost to the class. We switched to spell points when the character was 6th or 7th level, so I've had the opportunity to get a taste of both versions.

There is the temptation to go nova, but it has happened only once or twice, when we were facing overwhelming odds, so I'll call that justified Normally, I like to spread my resources, but spending an odd spell-point or three to boost your chromatic orb seems like a nice feature to have, and goes really well with sorcerer's flavour.

Just my 2 cp.

Regards.

 

[DND_Reborn]

So to help that work you could use some sort of casting-stress system. The more spell points you spend in a short period, the greater the stress. That could be stress on the mage - exhaustion, hp damage, inability to cast for a time - or stress on reality (magical side-effects, spells going out of control).

Actually, you could use a system where you can't spend more than one spell point unless you spent a spell point in the previous round - so you have to 'warm up' to cast big spells - but also have to make concentration checks every round with a cumulative penalty based on how many spell points you've used so far...
… and have some sort of backlash when you finally fail.

That actually answered the question.

Funny you should mention a "casting-stress" system... I was thinking about something like the "spell drain" system in Shadowrun.

Spell Drain

After you cast a spell, you make a Spell Drain check using your spellcasting modifier. The DC is equal to 10 plus the spell level of the spell you cast. If you fail your spell drain check...

(options)
1. you suffer psychic damage equal to the spell level of the spell you cast. (Not bad, but since damage can be healed fairly easily, not much of a thing really.)
2. you suffer a level of exhaustion. (Good, but might be too much of a penalty.)
3. you cannot cast another spell for a number of rounds equal to the spell level of the spell you cast. (Makes casting higher level spells potentially risky.)

Cantrips could be included in all this, or might be left out. So with option #3, maybe you can still cast cantrips or maybe not? If anyone has other options for failing the spell drain check, let me know.

What do you think, Tony?

 

[5ekyu]

Funny you should mention a "casting-stress" system... I was thinking about something like the "spell drain" system in Shadowrun.

Spell Drain

After you cast a spell, you make a Spell Drain check using your spellcasting modifier. The DC is equal to 10 plus the spell level of the spell you cast. If you fail your spell drain check...

(options)
1. you suffer psychic damage equal to the spell level of the spell you cast. (Not bad, but since damage can be healed fairly easily, not much of a thing really.)
2. you suffer a level of exhaustion. (Good, but might be too much of a penalty.)
3. you cannot cast another spell for a number of rounds equal to the spell level of the spell you cast. (Makes casting higher level spells potentially risky.)

Cantrips could be included in all this, or might be left out. So with option #3, maybe you can still cast cantrips or maybe not? If anyone has other options for failing the spell drain check, let me know.

What do you think, Tony?

Not Tony but if this is meant to prevent or discourage nova i think its hard fail.

Its so small a diff between casting 5th and 1st that u are much better off casting fewer bigger spells for their greater impact.

The risk from lower level casting combines with their lower output to make it not worth the risk.

This seems nova-better rule.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Funny you should mention a "casting-stress" system... I was thinking about something like the "spell drain" system in Shadowrun.

That was one of the things in the back of my mind, yes. Magic is often presented as 'dangerous' or 'exhausting' or otherwise something you wouldn't want to do systematically just because you can - alternately, magic is often presented as something that /can't/ be used any time you want (only at certain times under certain conditions, with the aid/approval of some entity, etc). Vancian, in an abstract/meta-game/dissociated way, does boil down those sorts of things down to a net effect: you can only use magic n/day, but it's a pretty kludgy way of doing it.

Spell Drain
After you cast a spell, you make a Spell Drain check using your spellcasting modifier. The DC is equal to 10 plus the spell level of the spell you cast. If you fail your spell drain check...
(options)
1. you suffer psychic damage equal to the spell level of the spell you cast. (Not bad, but since damage can be healed fairly easily, not much of a thing really.)
2. you suffer a level of exhaustion. (Good, but might be too much of a penalty.)
3. you cannot cast another spell for a number of rounds equal to the spell level of the spell you cast. (Makes casting higher level spells potentially risky.)

Cantrips could be included in all this, or might be left out. So with option #3, maybe you can still cast cantrips or maybe not? If anyone has other options for failing the spell drain check, let me know.

What do you think, Tony?

IDK about options under the player's control, and don't much care for the exhaustion mechanic in general. I might prefer if option 3 was the default, then if you 'violated' it - cast again before the requisite number of rounds - you took the psychic damage. Maybe? Or would that be 'cooldown?'

 

[ScuroNotte]

The reasons we keep Sorcery Points and Spell Points systems separate are

• We already kept them separate, but when the question was posed to Crawford, he wrote the intended use was for them to be separate.
• Sorcery Points can no longer be used for creating spell slots when using Spell Points. And spell slots cannot create Sorcery Points.
• Sorcery Points are only used for Metamagic and Sorcerer Features. This allowed us to create a recovery system of Sorcery Points based on sorcerer level after a short rest.
• It requires a Bonus Action to convert Spell Points to Spell Slots before casting a spell. This forces the player to have prepared spell slots for spells when needed, that require reactions, or if they want to Quicken Magic a spell.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Not Tony but if this is meant to prevent or discourage nova i think its hard fail.

Its so small a diff between casting 5th and 1st that u are much better off casting fewer bigger spells for their greater impact.

The risk from lower level casting combines with their lower output to make it not worth the risk.

This seems nova-better rule.

No, this was not any sort of attempt about novaing. I don't care about novaing. No matter what system you use, someone can always nova--whether it is to a lesser or greater degree maybe--but they can always do it.

That was one of the things in the back of my mind, yes. Magic is often presented as 'dangerous' or 'exhausting' or otherwise something you wouldn't want to do systematically just because you can - alternately, magic is often presented as something that /can't/ be used any time you want (only at certain times under certain conditions, with the aid/approval of some entity, etc). Vancian, in an abstract/meta-game/dissociated way, does boil down those sorts of things down to a net effect: you can only use magic n/day, but it's a pretty kludgy way of doing it.

IDK about options under the player's control, and don't much care for the exhaustion mechanic in general. I might prefer if option 3 was the default, then if you 'violated' it - cast again before the requisite number of rounds - you took the psychic damage. Maybe? Or would that be 'cooldown?'

When I wrote about options those aren't under the player's control, they are options for how the mechanic plays out. I am not sure which I prefer either, but since then have adapted a variant mechanic using this as a base. Anyway, it is late and has been a long day, more to come tomorrow.