Using the Monk Power Structure with other Classes
- Thread starter Stalker0
- Start date
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
I understand that, my question was more if it wouldn't be the same if we made Sure Strike a basic attack.Sure Strike is +2 to hit. Fighters immobilize on opportunity attacks. Weirdly, it would make him stickier, thereby giving it an honest-to-goodness purpose
But on second thought, there seem to be some differences:
1) IIRC, you can use only one Full Discipline at a time (barring action points). So you can only benefit from Sure Strike on opportunity attacks if you actually attacked with it (or not at all).
2) Basic Attacks can also be used on charges and are triggered by certain other powers.
So it would make a difference.
keterys
First Post
Yep. The discipline thing is very interesting.
I mean, yes, I personally think Sure Strike could/should be a basic attack. I was just using it as an example of what I thought was an interesting possibility - giving defenders nifty opportunity attacks through their powers.
Things that could even include automatically slowing an enemy on a daily or shifting to follow the enemy or...
That would certainly do interesting things for paladins, as an easy example.
I mean, yes, I personally think Sure Strike could/should be a basic attack. I was just using it as an example of what I thought was an interesting possibility - giving defenders nifty opportunity attacks through their powers.
Things that could even include automatically slowing an enemy on a daily or shifting to follow the enemy or...
That would certainly do interesting things for paladins, as an easy example.
Eric Finley
First Post
Nice. The one thing I'd want to watch for is to make sure that the Standard portion is still different from (and of course better than) a basic attack. For example, your Priest's Shield example is completely equivalent to a one-entry power which read: "Minor action, Full Discipline: Grant a +1 AC bonus to [etc]."
In that specific case, for example, I would keep the Standard action the same (or, more likely, bump up the AC bonus to +2), and for the Minor let you mark an adjacent creature for a turn, or perhaps prevent an adjacent creature from gaining CA against an adjacent ally for a turn.
Here's a follow-on thought for you. Make a set of Style feats which add the Full Discipline keyword, and a move/minor action benefit, to the specified powers. Hell, make 'em Monk MC feats while you're at it, and submit it to Dragon...
Pearl Wind Style (Multiclass Monk) Requires Dex 13. You treat this style's associated powers as Full Discipline powers with the base power as its Attack technique, and add the listed additional techniques to the powers' text. You may also use monk implements.
Priest's Shield - Move technique: Shift one square into an ally's space, and shift that ally one square into an unoccupied space.
Sure Strike - Minor technique: Until the start of your next turn, you may use this power's attack technique as an opportunity attack. If you hit with this opportunity attack, you may shift one square.
Careful Attack - Move technique: Shift one square to a space adjacent to an enemy. Until the start of your next turn, you gain a +2 power bonus to AC against that enemy.
Flowing Stillness Style (Multiclass Monk) Requires Wis 13. You treat this style's associated powers as Full Discipline powers with the base power as its Attack technique, and add the listed additional techniques to the powers' text. You may also use monk implements.
Footwork Lure - Minor technique: Choose an adjacent enemy and an adjacent ally. Until the start of your next turn, if that ally provokes an opportunity attack from that enemy for moving without shifting, you become the opportunity attack's target instead.
Bolstering Strike - Minor technique: If you are prone, stand up. If not, then the next time you would be knocked prone before the start of your next turn, you may immediately make a saving throw to remain standing.
Priest's Shield - Move technique: Shift one square. If you take this shift, then at the end of the shift select one adjacent enemy and one adjacent ally. That ally may not grant combat advantage to that enemy until the start of your next turn.
Waterfall Ox Style(Multiclass Monk) Requires Str 13. You treat this style's associated powers as Full Discipline powers with the base power as its Attack technique, and add the listed additional techniques to the powers' text. You may also use monk implements.
Opening Shove - Move technique: Move half your speed. You may move into enemies' spaces during this move; if you do, slide each such enemy one square into an unoccupied space.
Focused Fury - Minor technique: Shift one square into an enemy's square, and push that enemy one square into an unoccupied space. Until the end of your next turn, when using any power which checks if enemies are adjacent to you, you may ignore this creature for that calculation.
Dual Strike - Move technique: Choose one enemy which is not adjacent to you (but is exactly two squares away), and a second enemy which is adjacent to you. Shift one square to a space next to the first enemy, and slide the second enemy to an unoccupied square adjacent to both you and the first enemy.
In that specific case, for example, I would keep the Standard action the same (or, more likely, bump up the AC bonus to +2), and for the Minor let you mark an adjacent creature for a turn, or perhaps prevent an adjacent creature from gaining CA against an adjacent ally for a turn.
Here's a follow-on thought for you. Make a set of Style feats which add the Full Discipline keyword, and a move/minor action benefit, to the specified powers. Hell, make 'em Monk MC feats while you're at it, and submit it to Dragon...
Pearl Wind Style (Multiclass Monk) Requires Dex 13. You treat this style's associated powers as Full Discipline powers with the base power as its Attack technique, and add the listed additional techniques to the powers' text. You may also use monk implements.
Priest's Shield - Move technique: Shift one square into an ally's space, and shift that ally one square into an unoccupied space.
Sure Strike - Minor technique: Until the start of your next turn, you may use this power's attack technique as an opportunity attack. If you hit with this opportunity attack, you may shift one square.
Careful Attack - Move technique: Shift one square to a space adjacent to an enemy. Until the start of your next turn, you gain a +2 power bonus to AC against that enemy.
Flowing Stillness Style (Multiclass Monk) Requires Wis 13. You treat this style's associated powers as Full Discipline powers with the base power as its Attack technique, and add the listed additional techniques to the powers' text. You may also use monk implements.
Footwork Lure - Minor technique: Choose an adjacent enemy and an adjacent ally. Until the start of your next turn, if that ally provokes an opportunity attack from that enemy for moving without shifting, you become the opportunity attack's target instead.
Bolstering Strike - Minor technique: If you are prone, stand up. If not, then the next time you would be knocked prone before the start of your next turn, you may immediately make a saving throw to remain standing.
Priest's Shield - Move technique: Shift one square. If you take this shift, then at the end of the shift select one adjacent enemy and one adjacent ally. That ally may not grant combat advantage to that enemy until the start of your next turn.
Waterfall Ox Style(Multiclass Monk) Requires Str 13. You treat this style's associated powers as Full Discipline powers with the base power as its Attack technique, and add the listed additional techniques to the powers' text. You may also use monk implements.
Opening Shove - Move technique: Move half your speed. You may move into enemies' spaces during this move; if you do, slide each such enemy one square into an unoccupied space.
Focused Fury - Minor technique: Shift one square into an enemy's square, and push that enemy one square into an unoccupied space. Until the end of your next turn, when using any power which checks if enemies are adjacent to you, you may ignore this creature for that calculation.
Dual Strike - Move technique: Choose one enemy which is not adjacent to you (but is exactly two squares away), and a second enemy which is adjacent to you. Shift one square to a space next to the first enemy, and slide the second enemy to an unoccupied square adjacent to both you and the first enemy.
Eric Finley
First Post
Yeah - in retrospect, the basic concept of the Ox style is one which really doesn't fit the pattern of a Full Discipline; the movement control stuff really needs to be either dependent on the Attack technique (which means it doesn't have the in-either-order versatility of the Full Disciplines) or needs a to-hit roll (which again breaks the Full Discipline pattern).
Rethinking the style's basic schtick a little, I think I'd try something like:
Opening Shove - Move technique: Move half your speed. You may move through enemies' spaces during this movement (though you will provoke attacks of opportunity normally). You must end your movement in an unoccupied square.
Focused Fury - Move technique: Move two squares. You may move through one enemy's space during this movement (though you will provoke attacks of opportunity normally). You must end your movement in an unoccupied square. If you move through an enemy's space, then until the end of your next turn, when using any power which checks if enemies are adjacent to you, you may ignore this enemy for that check.
Knockdown Assault - Move technique: Move up to your speed. You may move through prone creatures' squares during this movement. If you move through a creature's square, then until the start of your next turn you gain the ability to make a melee basic attack against that creature as an immediate reaction if it stands up adjacent to you.
Another good line would be:
Swaying Reed Style (Multiclass Monk) - Requires Str 13, Dex 13. You treat this style's associated powers as Full Discipline powers with the base power as its Attack technique, and add the listed additional techniques to the powers' text. You may also use monk implements.
Circling Strike (Ranger) - Move technique: Shift up to three squares into your beast companion's square. Your beast companion shifts three squares along a different path into your original square.
Probing Strike (Rogue) - Move technique: Shift one square. Until the end of your next turn, when you use either this power's attack technique, or an attack benefiting from the attack technique's Effect, you may shift one square after the attack as well.
Leaping Shade (Assassin) - Minor technique: Move one square for each shroud you have on your assassin's shroud target. This movement counts as a move action for the purposes of allowing you to make a Stealth check.
This is fun - but challenging. Making them related and yet order-independent is an interesting head space to try to be in. Note that there's an interesting fillip to it... I feel that the add-ons for powers from classes not normally thought of as monk-compatible, like Opening Shove, can be allowed to be noticeably more powerful. I don't know if they are as written, but IMO that's generally a fair basis.
Rethinking the style's basic schtick a little, I think I'd try something like:
Opening Shove - Move technique: Move half your speed. You may move through enemies' spaces during this movement (though you will provoke attacks of opportunity normally). You must end your movement in an unoccupied square.
Focused Fury - Move technique: Move two squares. You may move through one enemy's space during this movement (though you will provoke attacks of opportunity normally). You must end your movement in an unoccupied square. If you move through an enemy's space, then until the end of your next turn, when using any power which checks if enemies are adjacent to you, you may ignore this enemy for that check.
Knockdown Assault - Move technique: Move up to your speed. You may move through prone creatures' squares during this movement. If you move through a creature's square, then until the start of your next turn you gain the ability to make a melee basic attack against that creature as an immediate reaction if it stands up adjacent to you.
Another good line would be:
Swaying Reed Style (Multiclass Monk) - Requires Str 13, Dex 13. You treat this style's associated powers as Full Discipline powers with the base power as its Attack technique, and add the listed additional techniques to the powers' text. You may also use monk implements.
Circling Strike (Ranger) - Move technique: Shift up to three squares into your beast companion's square. Your beast companion shifts three squares along a different path into your original square.
Probing Strike (Rogue) - Move technique: Shift one square. Until the end of your next turn, when you use either this power's attack technique, or an attack benefiting from the attack technique's Effect, you may shift one square after the attack as well.
Leaping Shade (Assassin) - Minor technique: Move one square for each shroud you have on your assassin's shroud target. This movement counts as a move action for the purposes of allowing you to make a Stealth check.
This is fun - but challenging. Making them related and yet order-independent is an interesting head space to try to be in. Note that there's an interesting fillip to it... I feel that the add-ons for powers from classes not normally thought of as monk-compatible, like Opening Shove, can be allowed to be noticeably more powerful. I don't know if they are as written, but IMO that's generally a fair basis.
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