Using weapons in unusual ways

[Raflar]

I'm running a city based campaign in which the players are trying really hard not to kill the bad guys (they are investigaters for the City Watch, not hunter killer types). One of my players wants to use the pomels of her daggers as subdual weapons but I can't find any ruling for using a weapon in this manner.

As it stands now, I've instilled a -4 penalty to attack (as per PH v3.0 pg135). I thought there was a Feat out there (Wizards or Third Party) that helped with this. I found "Weapon of Opportunity" feat in Path of the Sword by Legends and Lairs but it only gives ruling on using 'non weapons' as weapons (ie chair leg, tankard, dead body).

So my question is: Is there a Feat that takes away the -4 when dealing subdual damage with a lethal weapon?

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Not that I'm aware of. But it's fairly easy to put a name on that sentence and turn it into a feat.

Dead or Alive.
Prereq: BAB +1
Description: the character is just as skilled at subduing her opponents as at killing them. When using a weapon to deal subdual damage, she does not suffer any penalty to attack rolls.
Normal: Characters using a weapon other than a sap to deal subdual rather than lethal damage suffer a -4 penalty to their attack rolls.

You could even add a feat afterward modelled after the Bloodhound (MotW) ability--
Pull the punch
Prerequisite: BAB +4, Dead or Alive
Benefit: A character may choose whether an attack deals lethal or subdual damage after seeing the effects of the blow.

 

[pingpong]

have you seen the Watch Detective from Masters of the Wild? not only does that sound like a fitting prestige class for your players, but the class gets an ability at 5th level called No Subdual Penalty. it basically takes away the -4 for subdual attacking.

the class also gets an ability at 7th called Improved Subdual, that lets them add their Int mod to damage when making a subdual attack.

 

[Particle_Man]

I think KoK has a feat that allows one to pick one weapon and be able to do subdual/non-lethal damage from that weapon without the -4 penalty.

But why use dagger pommels when they can just get saps? The nightwatchmen's billy club seems ideal for these guys.

 

[Raflar]

I think KoK has a feat that allows one to pick one weapon and be able to do subdual/non-lethal damage from that weapon without the -4 penalty.

But why use dagger pommels when they can just get saps? The nightwatchmen's billy club seems ideal for these guys.

I tried to persuade them to do that, I even made a house rule that you could do subdual damage with clubs & staves at no penatly. It's more of a flavour issue. She wields a rapier/dagger combo (2 weapon fighting) and doesn't want to change weapons just to do subdual damage.


I like the KoK feat. Can you post the details on that one? (any prereqs?)

And I also like that Prestige Class "Watch Detective" in MotW. Very appropriate. Funny... I looked in all my rogue and fighter books but the perfect thing is in a 'non city' based book (generally speaking). Just goes to prove that you never know where you'll find the answer you're looking for.

 

[alsih2o]

i had a magical hammer in my game that was a slavers warhammer. it automatically dealt a subdual blow if the blow would have pushed the person hit below 0 hp.

my characters loved it

 

[Artoomis]

This is no problem at all.

Have her take Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Dagger Pommels.

Done.

 

[marshaldwm]

i had a magical hammer in my game that was a slavers warhammer. it automatically dealt a subdual blow if the blow would have pushed the person hit below 0 hp.

my characters loved it

Or you could usethe merciful enchantment from sword and Fist. For a +1 you get a weapon that always does subdual, and an extra +1d6 damage to boot. Sine the weapon always does subdual, I would rule IMC that you do not take the -4 becasue you do not have to hit carefully with the weapon.

Also, you can turn off the enchantment and attack normally.

 

[Raflar]

Not that I'm aware of. But it's fairly easy to put a name on that sentence and turn it into a feat.

Dead or Alive.
Prereq: BAB +1
Description: the character is just as skilled at subduing her opponents as at killing them. When using a weapon to deal subdual damage, she does not suffer any penalty to attack rolls.
Normal: Characters using a weapon other than a sap to deal subdual rather than lethal damage suffer a -4 penalty to their attack rolls.

You could even add a feat afterward modelled after the Bloodhound (MotW) ability--
Pull the punch
Prerequisite: BAB +4, Dead or Alive
Benefit: A character may choose whether an attack deals lethal or subdual damage after seeing the effects of the blow.

After talking with my players, I think this is the route that we will go. They are only 1st level right now, so using 'Merciful' magic items or waiting for PrC isn't really an option they want to wait for.

Thanx for your help.

 

[Pagan priest]

One of my players wants to use the pomels of her daggers as subdual weapons but I can't find any ruling for using a weapon in this manner.

The rule is that using a weapon in this manner carries a -4 penalty to hit. The reason can be described as the difficulty in using it twisted into an awkward position, smaller striking surface, the need to get farther out of a proper fighting stance, etc.etc.etc.

She can use a sap, she can accept the penalties, or maybe you can house rule an exotic weapon proficiency: dagger pommel sap.

I have not seen anything in any of the books I've read that has a way to negate this penalty. (Which doesn't speak for the books I haven't read...)