D&D 3E/3.5 v4: Challenge Ratings pdf (3.5 compatible)

[Moobus]

Don't forget, EL 27 is either ONE 111th level character, or FOUR 27th level characters.


Perhaps this is a better test of the system:

Forget the hecawhatsis.

Do four 27th level characters stand a 50/50 against a lone 111th level character?

Wulf

Mm, page 16 (on Party Level and Party Encounter Level, with a few examples) seems to suggest PL is the average of character level, and PEL the number we get after adjustment for EL (according to Table 2-1) and then adjustment based on number of PCs.

I was also going to bring up the lone uber-character vs. a party of weaker Epic characters...That would test whether EL and PEL match up, as opposed to CR vs. character level (what I'm interested in now). But I'm honestly not sure I can play out an encounter like that effectively.

 

[xanatos]

A question... Do undead and constructs sell back their INT and CON to 0? (thus taking 0.1*10+0.1*10 if they are medium sized)?
Mmmmh.... Your size cost has a column for constructs... Is it the base cost minus the cost of the missing CON?

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

A question... Do undead and constructs sell back their INT and CON to 0? (thus taking 0.1*10+0.1*10 if they are medium sized)?
Mmmmh.... Your size cost has a column for constructs... Is it the base cost minus the cost of the missing CON?

AFAIK, the lack of Con and Int is included in the undead and Construct traits.
So, no, don't count these when determining CR from ability scores.

Later,

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

I did see them, thanks.

I haven't had time to fully go over them as yet (or Sorcicas A's) due to my generally busier schedule Friday + Weekend and a healthy barrage of messages and/or emails.

I will get to address them tomorrow when hopefully I can put all this stuff to bed for good.

Sometimes I think I'd have an easier time as a physicist trying to discover the Theory of Everything.

Theory of Everything is a piece of cake. Determining CR is where things get complicated

If nobody else has been doing them, I will revise the letters L, M, N and O. Should be enough to keep me occupied for a while...

Later,

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

I will respond to previous posts a little later. However, I am working on the multiple opponent aspect of v4.1 and I need feedback on something.

For multiple opponents of the same CR I have it noted that EL plateaus at (approx.) 384+ opponents.

eg. 384 CR 1 opponents are EL 18. This is the same as 384,000 CR 1 opponents who would also be EL 18.

The problem however is that 384,000 CR 1 opponents would clearly defeat the 384 CR 1 opponents, but they almost certainly wouldn't be more of a threat to a 20th-level character than the 384 opponents.

So how do I best represent this dichotomy?

Should I just ignore the plateau (384,000 CR 1 opponents are EL 38 if we ignore the plateau)?

Or represent it?

 

[CRGreathouse]

What are the base abilities by size?

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Should I just ignore the plateau (384,000 CR 1 opponents are EL 38 if we ignore the plateau)?

Why did you institute the plateau in the first place? Is there some mathematical reason for it or is it arbitrary?

Personally, I think it's kind of a moot point. I wouldn't run a combat with 384 opponents, let alone 384,000. I think at that point you've moved out of the CR/EL system and should really be using mass combat rules of some kind.

It would just never, ever remotely come up in any game I would ever run or play in. :shrug:

Wulf

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Wulf mate!

Why did you institute the plateau in the first place? Is there some mathematical reason for it or is it arbitrary?

Clearly a plateau exists; no amount of 1st-level characters could defeat a Balor for example.

The spread of valid opponent ELs is 17 (-8 to +8).

However, I think I will ignore the plateau mechanically but still comment upon it philosophically instead.

Personally, I think it's kind of a moot point. I wouldn't run a combat with 384 opponents, let alone 384,000. I think at that point you've moved out of the CR/EL system and should really be using mass combat rules of some kind.

It would just never, ever remotely come up in any game I would ever run or play in. :shrug:

You wuss!

We've had armies half million strong go at it and though Mass Combat rules are used for such occasions; there have been others whereupon it was simply a Party (or even just single Character*) versus an entire Army.

*Thrin was a one man wrecking crew even back when he was mid-level. My favourite was Thrin (at 11th-level) versus a 10,000 strong Army, charged in and fought his way to the leader (who was higher level) and then defeated him and forced the armies surrender.

Come to think of it Thrin did that sort of thing a lot. Ah to be young and reckless.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Ah, thanks. Yes, that's certainly a HD/5 round up table, though it's capped at 5d6.

Maybe in your neck of the woods its capped.

I'm not sure that mine are actualy correct. On the upside, all of the work (the particular numbers as well as the 'showing work' aspect) is done by an almost-automated Excel file, so it shouldn't be too hard to fix any mistakes.

I'll check one or two at random, if right, they'll all go in.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

I'll finish replying to all the posts herein in about an hour (and edit this post in the process).