D&D 3E/3.5 v4: Challenge Ratings pdf (3.5 compatible)

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Greybar mate!

Ah yes, I was referring to the 3.5 Psionics (aka the XPH). In that book the Wilder and Soulblade are core classes.

I'll probably pick it up eventually.

On the good news side for analysis, there no longer are psionic modes. I think it should be possible to treat psionic powers as spells pretty easily in that since, though the points-vs-slots would still be different. Heck, the points approach might make for easier analysis.

True though such things do need a good going over.

Off the top of my head, I'm guessing I could treat the Psionic Warrior somewhere on the level of integrated Bard levels - not a big punch since all we're talking about there is the "spellcasting" capability.

That might work in the short term.

Looking forward to hear how publication is going!

Hey thanks, a bit slow at the moment but c'est la vie.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Halloo U_K,

Hey there Laman Stahros!

I was just going thru the adventure I'm going to be running this weekend using your system and I realized that I couldn't figure out how to use your system with regards to traps (or am I missing it?). Someone, please help me solve this!

Well firstly let me say a big thanks to CRGreathouse for stepping in.

As he relates, just treat the trap CR as a monster CR. Of course that means we have to take the trap CRs at face value, so I suppose at some point I could give the traps a closer inspection.

 

[Greybar]

UK,

So I know I'm using your document for an unintended purpose, but... I've been using it to create PCs for a one-shot game, which has been loads of fun. The flexibility is great, and since I'm creating the characters as GM I'm not too worried about abusing the system.

But it certainly has reminded me about why CR != ECL. An opponent having an at-will ability probably won't be able to use it too much, but a PC with an at-will ability (oh, say Cure Minor Wounds) is a big deal. Have you considered a parallel system that is intended for character creation?

john

 

[Greybar]

Fighter vs. Outsider

Just a note on something I ran into while making baddies.

I'm not sure that the difference in CR between a level of fighter (0.8) and a level of Outsider (0.7) matches up well.

Pro-Outsider:
* Three Good saves instead of one.
* 8 skill points vs. 2 skill points

Con-Outsider:
* One less hitpoint than fighter per level

The bonus feat is a wash since the difference in cost (0.1) is enough to get a feat (0.2) every second level.

So is that a reasonable trade-off? Am I overestimating the value of the SVs?

By comparison, the Dragon die (@0.75/HD) pays that extra cost for the large HD but everything else the same as Outsider. Is it just that it'd be too much of a pain to make the Outsider list as 0.725 or somesuch? I certainly understand a certain amount of rounding.

john

 

[Zoatebix]

I tried to do some figuring from memory, and came up short
...Arg, let me get my copy of v4 and add things up for outsider...

.05 ability score increases over 20 HD
.0766 feats over 20 HD
.2 Base attack bonus
.15 d8 HD
.18 3 good saves (versus .12 for fighter...)
.092 for 8 skill points per HD

That's .7486 per HD right there! Strange... It really seems like Outsiders are under-valued. Dragons have the same thing except 2 fewer skill points and d12 HD, right? That puts them at .7921! Are monster HD under-valued across the board? They get silver-ruled even lower than that, too (even more with the 2/3rds rule from Grim Tales).

Fighters (and other PC classes) do have several things in their favor that usually don't get factored into their CRs, though. This system does assume that creatures have 3 10s and 3 11s for their ability scores. Outsiders have to get increased ability scores, even the standard array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 or whatever). PC characters usually get better scores than average for 'free'.

Maybe the inherent advantages of PCs is coded into the system, and further corrected for by the silver rule or the 2/3rds rule.

I'm really interested in this now!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

I'll comment on this further tomorrow, just been busy sorting out the website all day and its now 1:40 am here and I am knackered.

www.immortalshandbook.com

(Its not totally finished but that should give you an idea)

I thought it was prudent to slightly undercut the monsters wherever possible hence the rounding down to .05's.

I am fairly sure I calculated the breakdowns of the class levels and monster HD correct. So you should be able to see how they all contrast and compare.

I'll have to examine this in the morning.

 

[Greybar]

Looks good UK! Good luck wrapping things up while retaining sanity. Ah, who am I kidding, forget the latter, do the former!

BTW, the titles in the "Blessings" section are white-on-white. Very sneaky way to keep out the unbelievers.

Take care,
john

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Greybar mate!

Looks good UK!

Thanks dude, I appreciate the support.

Good luck wrapping things up while retaining sanity. Ah, who am I kidding, forget the latter, do the former!

He he!

BTW, the titles in the "Blessings" section are white-on-white. Very sneaky way to keep out the unbelievers.

Yes, unintentional, however I may use that technique in the future.

Its fixed now though, as are the screenshots in the Legend of Zu movie review.

Take care,

You too matey!

 

[Zhnov]

Dr1 Pc Ecl

Howdy UK!

Exalted One! ... I'm certainly as patient as every soul for the release of the ImH (money already considered well spent), but I'd like your help to calculate the ECL for a DR1 PC (w/20 outsider HD).

I have a copy of pdf.v4, and can certainly calculate ECL for many of the (divine) abilities, but many items are missing.

I would imagine you have experimented with applying ECL to the standard divine ranks as defined in the Dt&Dg... can you ballpark a few ECL modifiers for a few demigod ranks?

Perhaps:
DR ECL
0 +5 thru +20
1 +40
2 +43
3 +46
4 +50
etc...

I know this will be laid out in the tome, but I am in a quandry... a player has an epic barbarian PC gone divine, and I find XP calculations hopeless to manuever for this DR1 PC (my DR0 "immortals" scale from ECL +5 through +20, based on our well-developed homebrew system).

...respect and humility,
Orlic

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy UK!

Hi Orlic matey!

Exalted One! ... I'm certainly as patient as every soul for the release of the ImH (money already considered well spent),

...yeah sorry about that one.

but I'd like your help to calculate the ECL for a DR1 PC (w/20 outsider HD).

Well 20 Outsider HD = ECL 14 - thats without any equipment factored in.

I have a copy of pdf.v4, and can certainly calculate ECL for many of the (divine) abilities, but many items are missing.

Which items specifically?

I would imagine you have experimented with applying ECL to the standard divine ranks as defined in the Dt&Dg...

I haven't rated D&Dg divinity in about 18 months to be honest - I have been more concerned with my own take on it, which, while similar, is much quicker and easier to implement.

can you ballpark a few ECL modifiers for a few demigod ranks?

Perhaps:
DR ECL
0 +5 thru +20
1 +40
2 +43
3 +46
4 +50
etc...

Off the top of my head I seem to recall DvR 0 was about ECL +20 by my reckoning and DvR 1 was about ECL +30 with each subsequent DvR an extra +2-3 or so.

I know this will be laid out in the tome,

My take on Divinity yes, not theirs.

but I am in a quandry... a player has an epic barbarian PC gone divine, and I find XP calculations hopeless to manuever for this DR1 PC (my DR0 "immortals" scale from ECL +5 through +20, based on our well-developed homebrew system).

I should probably outline the D&Dg divinity ECL in a website article, I'll see what I can come up with over the weekend.

...respect and humility,
Orlic

Take care mate!