D&D 3E/3.5 v4: Challenge Ratings pdf (3.5 compatible)

Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
CRGreathouse said:
Aaugh! You mean you're calculating scores that aren't a part of racial bonuses?

Well, if it's going to be done this way, all ability scores need to be their own calculation.

And if a creature's racial ability modifiers total to more than +0, then yes, they should be counted.

For example, doppelgangers have a total modifier of +14: +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, +4 Wis, +2 Cha. Their base scores, though, aren't all 10: they use the standard array of 11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10. This means that calculated as you did the aboleth, they would get +1.7 instead of +1.4, to no benefit! This would be like counting elven ability scores as +0.3 instead of +0.

The best way to calculate the ability score CR factor is to add them all up, subtract 63, and divide the result by 10.

Correct me if I'm wrong there, UK.


Wulf
 

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CRGreathouse

Community Supporter
Wulf Ratbane said:
The best way to calculate the ability score CR factor is to add them all up, subtract 63, and divide the result by 10.

Correct me if I'm wrong there, UK.

U_K's example didn't subtract 63; it subtracted 60. That's why I was concerned.
 

Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
CRGreathouse said:
U_K's example didn't subtract 63; it subtracted 60. That's why I was concerned.

A small gaffe on UK's part.

The average ability array is 11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10; the average ability score is 10.5; 10.5 x 6 = 63.
 

CRGreathouse

Community Supporter
Wulf Ratbane said:
A small gaffe on UK's part.

The average ability array is 11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10; the average ability score is 10.5; 10.5 x 6 = 63.

I've actually made a small spreadsheet to help update the monsters, and it subtracts 63. I wanted to make sure that U_K's mistake was just that and not a change. That would be bad.
 

Yet another ECL question. :rolleyes:

Okay, Krust is saying that the Golden rule probably shouldn't be used on CR's when used as ECL.

But the silver rule rule should be used still. So shouldn't it say somewhere that the silver rule is applied to the base CR when determining ECL?

Later,

Edit: And shouldn't it say that the golden rule shouldn't be applied?
 
Last edited:

seasong

First Post
I've started a thread for playing with Upper Krust's system. It is NOT a third thread to discuss whether or not the system needs fixing in some teeny tiny way. It's a sandbox to build castles in.

I've started things off with a bit of fun for the players in my upcoming D&D campaign (which will likely be starting next year), the Dark Contract template. As I have time, I will add other stuff as well (one thing I want to add is a domain realm of the Sun, and the winged humanoids that dwell there).
 

Kavon

Explorer
Woohoo, took me an hour to get here (at least) :eek:

Hey U_K :)

More questions I was thinking about.

How much would you deem suitable for additional attacks (not the iterative attacks)? Right now I've got it at 0.3, but I have the eerie feeling that that might be a bit low *looks around shoulder* o.o

I also had an idea on doing the HD and skill points..
I'm going to limit both to 1 per level (mostly because of skills), since if they'd be able to pick 2+Int more than once per level, no one would be taking 8+Int, since you'd get your Int bonus 4 times with 2+Int compared to the one time you get with 8+Int (it'll be about the same cost iirc). I'm still putting in the Skill ranks thing because if there wouldn't be any bonus on it from Int, it would decrease the effectiveness of the Int score. They can gain bonus skill points besides this though, just like I'm allowing for bonus HP besides the HD.

I'm gonna get going to my friends now, so I'll try to get back to this some other time.
 

Hi all! :)

Okay I have about 30 minutes before I have to go out. Lets see if I can make a dent in these posts.

Kavon said:

Hi mate! :)

Kavon said:
Hmm.. Yes. The thing I'm not confident about yet is.. how much more/less powerful than a feat is a certain thing? In some situations I can use my intuition on these things, and get it right by being lucky.. But I'd feel more comfortable if I had some sort of measuring stick.

I always try to use the force. :p

Kavon said:
I know there are allot of examples in v4 already, but I feel there might be certain things missing, like, how to account for a variable caster level with a spell-like ability. It's likely that I'm not seeing something of course..

Isn't there a feat somewhere that gives you spell-like abilities?

Kavon said:
I guess I'll go through it sometime and note the things I'm not sure about down, so that I can ask you about those.

Okay.

Kavon said:
I was also asking if you had the list of how much all the abilities were, since I know my players would like to have a list of abilities they could pick from. If you don't have it, I'll try making it myself of course (with all the errors I'm likely to make *sob* :p ).

Give me a list of the stuff you are unsure about.

Kavon said:
I'll have to map out the classes from Arcana Unearthed too I think..

Hmm... Now that I think about it, how did you calculate the Integrated Spell Levels on page 19? I'll need to calculate how much the Integrated Spell Levels for the spellcasters in Arcana Unearthed are, since I built my homebrew spellcasting system around that...

Okay, thats complicated and I can't remember exactly off hand, you'll have to wait until tomorrow.

Kavon said:
Which brings me to another question... Hmm.. I'll email you about that I guess. I'll give you the file I made about my casting system to see what you think about it. I haven't worked on it for quite a while, so I'm not sure what I needed to change still. I'll check it out again one of these days.

Okay.

Kavon said:
Yeah, I'm still going to hold true to the XP/character level table. I'm just going to consider breaking the progression up into little pieces (this depends largely on how far my players are willing to go on this as well).
For example...
The character starts at level 1, and needs 1000 XP to reach 2nd level. This is 1 CR, thus 0.1 CR = 100 XP. If I break it up in feat-size bits, that'll be 200 XP a piece. They choose what ability they want to gain, and they 'train' in that while gaining XP (or they gain the XP, and choose where to put it in). Once they reach 1000 XP, they'll be level 2, and 0.1 CR would now cost 200 XP. The XP needed for one feat doubles to 400 XP. At level 3, it triples, etc...
If they want an ability that is greater than 1 feat (let's say 1.5 times as good; 300 XP for level 1), and they already have, say, 800 XP. They'd spend the normal amount for the first 2/3rd of the ability, and the level 2 amount after they gained 1000 XP. So, they first spent 200 XP on the ability. They become level 2, and for the last part of the ability they'll have to pay twice as much XP (200, for a total of 400 XP) to increase it further (and any other ability they'd want).
This way they wouldn't need to wait so long till they'd be able to gain something for their character (although it wouldn't be as much as they would get at a normal level up).
This would only be one way of doing it though. If the player wants, they can save up their XP to use for stuff like creating magical items, or to spend it all when they become level 2. It just depends on how much trouble the player is willing to go through, and what type of progression he/she feels comfortable with.
The end result should be the same either way (except if I missed something).

If you are confident about it then I say go for it. Should be a useful exercise in player education anyway.

Kavon said:
I..er.. hope I'm explaining this well enough. I know how terrible I am at it. :eek:

All seems straightforward to me.
 


Hiya mate! :)

CRGreathouse said:
I might do a few of these, if nothing else to make up for the amount of U_K's time I've wasted. Just a few, though; I'll probably start from the end of the alphabet.

Appreciate the help mate.

CRGreathouse said:
Aaugh! You mean you're calculating scores that aren't a part of racial bonuses?

For example, doppelgangers have a total modifier of +14: +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, +4 Wis, +2 Cha. Their base scores, though, aren't all 10: they use the standard array of 11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10. This means that calculated as you did the aboleth, they would get +1.7 instead of +1.4, to no benefit! This would be like counting elven ability scores as +0.3 instead of +0.

Temporary oversight.

****ing ability scores and revised CRs will be the death of me. :rolleyes: :D
 

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