Valiant Prestige Class -- comments?

[robjh]

Is this PrC balanced? Thank you.

Valiant

The valiant is a chivalric champion of Coeurstav who has forsaken earthly pleasures for a divine cause. This character is a skilled combatant who specializes in fighting from the back of a horse or other mount. The valiant forms a strong bond with his mount, and the two learn to fight as a single, more powerful creature as a result. Most valiants are fighters, paladins, or clerics.

The valiant must follow the same code of conduct as a paladin, or they will lose favor with their god. In extreme cases they will lose all supernatural abilities until the misconduct is atoned. Unlike most other classes, paladin followers of Coeurstav that take levels as a valiant are still permitted to raise their paladin level.

Hit Die: d10

Requirements

To qualify to become a valiant, a character must fulfill all the
following criteria.

Alignment: Lawful Good.
Base Attack Bonus: +6.
Skills: Knowledge (religion) 2 ranks, Ride 5 ranks.
Feats: Mounted Combat.
Patron: Coeurstav.

Class Skills

The valiant's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Class Features

All of the following are class features of the valiant.

Weapons and Armor Proficiency: Valiants are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor, and with shields.

Skill Limitations: Because of their creed, a valiant has a strong disdain for certain underhanded skills. These include Bluff, Disguise, Forgery, Move Silently, Open Lock, and Sleight of Hand. The valiant can never spend their class skill points on these skills.

Equine Heal: A valiant can apply the Heal skill to any mount species that they have tended extensively. Typically these include various breeds of horses, but it may also apply to donkeys, mules, camels, elephants, and even flying mounts.

Cavalry Feat: At 1st, 3rd, and 5th levels, the valiant can select a bonus feat from the following list: Animal Affinity, Mounted Archery, Ride-By Attack, Skill Focus (Ride), Spirited Charge, Trample, or Weapon Focus (lance). She must still meet the prerequisites for gaining the feat.

Summon Celestial Mount (Su): Once a day, a valiant of 2nd level or higher can summon a celestial light warhorse to serve her. It will do so willingly and well. The steed appears within 30 ft. of the valiant at the location specified, and remains for 2 hours per valiant level. It comes equipped with a bit, bridle and a riding saddle and does not need to be fed or watered.

Equine Evasion: Starting at 3rd level, a valiant can maneuver their mount in combat so that it is more difficult to strike. While the valiant is actively controlling a trained steed, the mount gains a +2 Dodge bonus to AC.

One With The Mount (Su): At 4th level, a valiant gains an innateability to merge his spirit with the mount. The rider gains an empathic link with her mount, and can sense its emotional state and communicate commands telepathically. This gives a +2 circumstance bonus to Handle Animal and Ride skill checks with his mount. The mount also gains the Reflex and Willpower saving throw bonuses of the rider, if they are better than its own.

Battle Valor (Su): At 5th level, due to the exceptional valor imbued by their god, a valiant gains a +2 sacred bonus to any saving throws to resist paralysis, sleep effects, or fear.

Valiant Prestige Class

Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Equine heal, cavalry feat
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Summon celestial mount
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Equine evasion, cavalry feat
4th +4 +4 +4 +1 One with the mount
5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Battle valor, cavalry feat

 

[Kynn]

Is this PrC balanced? Thank you.

No, it's too weak.

Class Skills

The valiant's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Why does this prestige class have access to Craft, Diplomacy, and Profession?

(I could understand Craft if it were restricted to horse-related crafting.)

Weapons and Armor Proficiency: Valiants are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor, and with shields.

So they gain these proficiencies, if they don't have them? Why?

Skill Limitations: Because of their creed, a valiant has a strong disdain for certain underhanded skills. These include Bluff, Disguise, Forgery, Move Silently, Open Lock, and Sleight of Hand. The valiant can never spend their class skill points on these skills.

Seems an unnecessary restriction, but okay. If they feel this way about Bluff, should they get bonuses with Sense Motive?

Equine Heal: A valiant can apply the Heal skill to any mount species that they have tended extensively. Typically these include various breeds of horses, but it may also apply to donkeys, mules, camels, elephants, and even flying mounts.

Can't you do this anyway?

Cavalry Feat: At 1st, 3rd, and 5th levels, the valiant can select a bonus feat from the following list: Animal Affinity, Mounted Archery, Ride-By Attack, Skill Focus (Ride), Spirited Charge, Trample, or Weapon Focus (lance). She must still meet the prerequisites for gaining the feat.

If the character taking this class is a fighter, she's getting the same number of feats but it's much more restrictive, and thus limited (especially since these feats pretty much require you to have a mount). If the character taking this class is not a fighter, they're better off taking the fighter class.

Summon Celestial Mount (Su): Once a day, a valiant of 2nd level or higher can summon a celestial light warhorse to serve her. It will do so willingly and well. The steed appears within 30 ft. of the valiant at the location specified, and remains for 2 hours per valiant level. It comes equipped with a bit, bridle and a riding saddle and does not need to be fed or watered.

Is a celestial light warhorse worth it, especially at higher levels? At minimum levels, we're talking about an 8th level character summoning a 3 HD steed whose special abilities are a few energy immunities at 5 and smite evil once a day. Compare this to a 5th level paladin's 4HD heavy warhorse.

Also, the abilities don't seem to stack, so can a Paladin 6/Valiant 2 summon two mounts per day?

Equine Evasion: Starting at 3rd level, a valiant can maneuver their mount in combat so that it is more difficult to strike. While the valiant is actively controlling a trained steed, the mount gains a +2 Dodge bonus to AC.

This seems a very low bonus, all things considered. Especially at higher levels. How about the valiant adds his class level as a Dodge bonus to the mount's AC? This will be a +3 to +5 AC bonus.

One With The Mount (Su): At 4th level, a valiant gains an innateability to merge his spirit with the mount. The rider gains an empathic link with her mount, and can sense its emotional state and communicate commands telepathically. This gives a +2 circumstance bonus to Handle Animal and Ride skill checks with his mount. The mount also gains the Reflex and Willpower saving throw bonuses of the rider, if they are better than its own.

What's the range?

Also, maybe the mount should gain Evasion whenever it is being ridden.

Battle Valor (Su): At 5th level, due to the exceptional valor imbued by their god, a valiant gains a +2 sacred bonus to any saving throws to resist paralysis, sleep effects, or fear.

Why not just give them better will saves?

Anyway, the Paladin is immune to fear to begin with (and has ungodly saves). If you're not a paladin, then standing NEXT TO a paladin gives you a +4 fear save, which is better than this +2 bonus. (Granted, the +2 bonus applies to a little more.)

It seems to me that nearly all of the benefits of this class can be gained by continuing to level up as Paladin (and gaining more spells and additional abilities) or by taking 5 levels in fighter. It seems underpowered to me.

--Kynn

 

[robjh]

Thanks for the feedback.

* Paladins also get Craft, Diplomacy, and Profession
* They gain the armor/weapon proficiencies because it's a combat-oriented PrC.
* If you read the Heal skill, it says things like "person" and "character". Only the treat wounds from caltrops or spike growth works for creatures.
* They get additional special abilities on the same levels they get cavalry feats. So it's slightly more than a fighter, but balanced by the limitation.

I'll see what i can to to bump up the benefits for other issues you raised.

 

[Cartigan Mrryl]

Please note, Robjh, that in the Draconomicon the Dragon Slayer is also a combat-oriented PrC, but they still don't gain any proficiencies. I say that you make him IMMUNE TO FEAR (either at level 5, or level 1-5 somewhere around there) as well as granting him a +whatever bonus to other saving throws. Also, he/she/it should be granted the the ability to take Weapon Specialization with a Lance, even though Weapon Specialization is a Fighter-only Feat. Weapon Focus isn't really quite enough, also, you might want to make the "Equine Evasion" ability an improving one, so that at level 3 she gets the ability, and at level 5 it improves by... 2 or 3 more? I'm mainly using the Dragon Rider from the Draconomicon as a reference, so I'm kinda just throwing out ideas... feedback maybe?