Value of Slaves

[roguerouge]

If I were going to include slavery in my game, I'd use the Kalamar rule set above and make it relentlessly corporate LE and commercial in intent. And I'd certainly make it about slavery AS AN INSTITUTION rather than slavery of particular types of individuals.

 

[S'mon]

I do believe that it was more economically feasible

Serf feudalism seems to have beaten slavery economically in the middle ages. Wherever feudalism & serfdom became entrenched, chattel slavery died out (admittedly Russian sefdom was practically indistinguishable from slavery). A good example is England, where slavery was not uncommon in Saxon times but died out within a few decades of the Norman conquest. Conversely in the Celtic parts of the British Isles outside the Norman sphere, where feudalism was less developed and a tribal/clan ethos lingered, slavery lasted into the 15th century.

 

[S'mon]

And I'd certainly make it about slavery AS AN INSTITUTION rather than slavery of particular types of individuals.

In cultures with concepts of citizenship and citizen rights such as ancient Greece and Rome, slavery will normally have an ethnic, racial or religious element to denote who can be enslaved and who cannot. In cultures without a concept of citizen rights slavery may be wholly egalitarian - "We are all slaves of the Great King, but in addition you are my slave too".

 

[mmadsen]

The OP defining the value of a slave on the basis of their attractiveness, gender, and race—rather than the economic value of their generic labor and game stats, as in the helpful post on the Kalamar rules, or on the basis of their health—upset me. The implication, which I am going to assume was unintentional, was not pleasant.

Does it upset you to know that the orc hordes toss their defeated foes atop sharpened stakes, eat the young, hunt terrified victims for sport, etc.? I find it odd that the mere mention of selling beautiful slave girls for more than common laborers would seriously upset you. Far, far worse things happen in the real world and in fantasy D&D worlds all the time.

Yes, slavery could be a cultural-trait-neutral economic system, I suppose. Yes, slavery need not be based on racism and sexism and xenophobia. But that is the starting assumption you make given its history AND the likely cultural connotations MOST players are going to have entering the game.

I don't think most players are necessarily going to associate fantasy slavery with New World chattel slavery of Africans, with all the racial elements that go with that. Slavery was common in the Bible, in Greek and Roman history, in the medieval (and later) Middle East, etc. It has also long been a staple of light adventure fiction, where our heroes escape being sent to the mines, or rescue the fair maiden from the villain's harem, etc.

 

[Rystil Arden]

The Kalamar system is nice. I like how it accounts for skills, age, and race.

But, why are halflings and gnomes 150% the cost of humans?

Eh, I think the Kalamar system is way too cheap. For the price of a spyglass, you can buy a 10th-level PC-classed slave. For the price of two spyglasses and change (or if you prefer, the cost of a +1 sword), you can buy a 20th-level PC-classed slave with stat bonuses totalling to 25+ (so that means better on average than having straight 18s).

 

[S'mon]

Eh, I think the Kalamar system is way too cheap. For the price of a spyglass, you can buy a 10th-level PC-classed slave. For the price of two spyglasses and change (or if you prefer, the cost of a +1 sword), you can buy a 20th-level PC-classed slave with stat bonuses totalling to 25+ (so that means better on average than having straight 18s).

The Kalamar prices make sense as "this is what such a slave would sell for", obviously they don't work as "If you have the money, here's what you get" - but that doesn't make sense for the ten billion chickens either, or pretty much anything in the D&D equipment lists. The DM needs to decide what's available separately from the cost; eg IMC (homebrew, Lankhmar type setting) you could rarely buy PC-class characters, and rarely anyone over 1st level.

 

[Rystil Arden]

The Kalamar prices make sense as "this is what such a slave would sell for", obviously they don't work as "If you have the money, here's what you get" - but that doesn't make sense for the ten billion chickens either, or pretty much anything in the D&D equipment lists. The DM needs to decide what's available separately from the cost; eg IMC (homebrew, Lankhmar type setting) you could rarely buy PC-class characters, and rarely anyone over 1st level.

Well, the market's supply determines price as well. If I were a slave-owning PC in Kalamar, I would pay a lot more for a level 1 PC-class 18-year-old slave girl with 18 in all stats except 20 in one of them than 300 gold (if there ever was such a person, and I guess her name would be Mary Sue). Then, thanks to those ridiculous stats, she could advance in Monk or a Paladin or any other MAD class and join the adventuring team--for 300 gold, the party could easily afford her at level 1 if they worked together. Or buy her at level 4 for 600 gold and immediately set her free and take her as a cohort. With 18 Con, she can easily survive.

The point is, thanks to the low supply, the price should be much higher. No matter what your planned use for someone with higher than 18 in all stats on average, that has to be worth a huge amount to you. Same with a PC class slave--Conan, the level 20 Barbarian, isn't going to come up on the auction block every day, but when he does, he'll go for much more than 2000 Gold because you can use him to thwart entire armies.

 

[S'mon]

Well, the market's supply determines price as well. If I were a slave-owning PC in Kalamar, I would pay a lot more for a level 1 PC-class 18-year-old slave girl with 18 in all stats except 20 in one of them than 300 gold (if there ever was such a person, and I guess her name would be Mary Sue). Then, thanks to those ridiculous stats, she could advance in Monk or a Paladin or any other MAD class and join the adventuring team.

Or she could CDG you in your sleep and run away.

"So this slave is an F20, 18 STR, DEX, CON and CHA? Wow! You want how much? Deal! ...You say his name is Spartacus?"

 

[Rystil Arden]

Or she could CDG you in your sleep and run away.

"So this slave is an F20, 18 STR, DEX, CON and CHA? Wow! You want how much? Deal! ...You say his name is Spartacus?"

That's the other good thing about a Paladin slave--especially one who has been enslaved lawfully by a legitimate authority

Anyway, of course the price assumes that you actually get the slave and the slave doesn't randomly kill you--if the GM is just going to do that every time someone buys a slave to indicate their distaste for slavery, you might as well just not have it. You could buy the 10 GP cupbearer with 10 in all stats and he could still put poison in your drink.

Anyway, lest I only talk about pricing, IMC, there's one culture that has indentured slaves, and they consider it the humane thing to do in the cases of orphans, those who can't pay debts, some criminals, etc (though in the case of criminals, the criminals are required to put on a collar that stops them from being violent to their new master of their own free will, thus voiding a chance for a Will save). Granted the society is generally Lawful Evil, but even the Good people living there believe in it. After a preestablished length of time, the slavery lapses.

 

[Clavis]

In my campaign world, humanoids like Goblins, Hobgoblins, Kobolds and Orcs are frequently for sale as slaves, goblins being the most common. A goblin slave (perfect for things like rat-catching, chimney sweeping, latrine washing, nighttime street sweeping etc.) costs about 100 gp. Enslaving humans, elves, dwarves or halflings is highly illegal. If it was legal, I would start prices at 500gp for a human, up to 5,000-10,000 for an elven concubine.

Strangely, my PCs have never bothered to sell any humanoids into slavery (although one of them, the halfling, has a goblin slave). Most of the players thought that actually engaging in the slave trade would be "dirty". Sodomizing a goblin with a staff to get information out of him, however, was apparently OK in their minds...