Value of Slaves

[Alzrius]

Which would be why I used the qualifier "can have" and did not write "must inevitably have."

You used it in the context of "can have no ill effects over time" where "can" is understand to mean "possible." I'm saying that any such possibility is at most minimal, and harmless to the degree that it can at all. People who are affected more than that are so affected due to their own personal problems, which is in no way the fault of the fiction they consume.

Also, my argument is not about watching A movie or television program. I agree with you that it's virtually never about the effect of consuming a single work of fiction, outside of exceptional cases. It's about the effects of what I termed "massive" consumption, such as the average American's consumption of 28.8 hours of TV a week (according to TV Dimensions) or someone spending the equivalent amount of time on WoW or playing DnD.

Exactly what constitutes "massive" is far too up for debate. That said, I don't think that watching a few hours of TV every day is going to make a person emulate what's on TV, ditto for WoW, D&D, or anything else.

A person who consumes anything to the point where it's an addiction (to say nothing of emulating the qualities of fiction in reality) is at fault for their behavior - there is nothing inherent in fiction that causes such behavior.

Look, this particular thing is an issue on which reasonable people can disagree.

Look, I don't remember every suggesting otherwise, particularly since we've both been measured and reasoned this whole time.

If we want, we can take this up elsewhere.

If that's what "we" want to do, then yes, yes we can.

 

[Alzrius]

So, your position here is that there's nothing wrong with a group of people who "enjoy" sitting around role playing the purchase of "a comely female elf slave for the purposes of raping her," in your words?

In a word, yes.

There's absolutely nothing (inherently) wrong with people who role-play that; because what they role-play has absolutely no bearing on how they act in real life. Fiction is separate and distinct from reality.

 

[S'mon]

If the person knows the difference between fantasy and reality, and doesn't engage in such role-playing if he knows it makes other people uncomfortable, then there's nothing wrong with what he enjoys. Fiction isn't real.

Emphasis mine. If you're a GM, know your players. If your players aren't comfortable with eg the issue of where half-orcs come from, bear that in mind when running your game.

Edit: Or, to put it another way, if roguerouge is a player, don't have comely elfs for sale in your game.

 

[Arnwyn]

I know this thread seems to have deviated a bit, but I'll answer the OP's question anyways.

The system in Lords of Madness is, by far, my favorite way of calculating slave prices (and the best I've seen). It can be easily modified to cover the economy of one's particular campaign, it covers the entire gamut of, well, anything that can be bought and sold that you want (from NPCs all the way to monsters), and can have simple modifiers added to include things like age, comeliness, strength, etc if you want to go into that much detail.

It's simple, unrestrictive (ie. covers everything), and easily modifiable (is that a word?). I recommend it, and flagrantly state that "it's the best".

 

[roguerouge]

In a word, yes.

There's absolutely nothing (inherently) wrong with people who role-play that; because what they role-play has absolutely no bearing on how they act in real life. Fiction is separate and distinct from reality.

If your gaming has absolutely no effect on you because what you enjoy neither reflects nor shapes your character, why do it? Why introduce slavery to a setting if doing so doesn't affect the players in the way that you want them to be affected?

I get people who say that they want to use the game to work through their issues. I get the people who say that the game helps them in their daily life in various ways, e.g. honing their inter-personal skills or strategic thinking or learn something historical. I create and perform these fictions because I think it helps me and others in various ways and I avoid creating other kinds of fictions because I dislike hearing the sadist's giggle.

But spending hours upon hours and hundreds of dollars on something that has no bearing on their life? That, I don't get.

 

[Alzrius]

If your gaming has absolutely no effect on you because what you enjoy neither reflects nor shapes your character, why do it?

Because, as you noted, it's something enjoyable. Someone into recreational boxing may enjoy it, but that doesn't mean that they look to get into fistfights in real life. A person who plays a lot of first-person-shooter video games enjoys them, but might not even own a gun, and certainly isn't necessarily going to get a gun and shoot real people in order to get that same thrill.

Why introduce slavery to a setting if doing so doesn't affect the players in the way that you want them to be affected?

Because the person introducing it wants to be so affected him/herself. It's about their own enjoyment; that said, gaming is a group activity, so the responsible thing to do is discuss it with the other players beforehand; if they aren't comfortable with it, it shouldn't be done.

I get people who say that they want to use the game to work through their issues. I get the people who say that the game helps them in their daily life in various ways, e.g. honing their inter-personal skills or strategic thinking or learn something historical. I create and perform these fictions because I think it helps me and others in various ways and I avoid creating other kinds of fictions because I dislike hearing the sadist's giggle.

It's all well and good that you game to serve these purposes, but none of the above that you mentioned involves just doing something for enjoyment. And enjoying fiction, as I noted, has no bearing on how a person will act with other people in the real world.

But spending hours upon hours and hundreds of dollars on something that has no bearing on their life? That, I don't get.

Strictly speaking, I don't think gaming has any impact on real life, so I find your statement there somewhat confusing (though it's more understandable in that your previous statement seems to indicate that you see/use gaming as a catharsis, social exercise, or history lesson).

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

If your gaming has absolutely no effect on you because what you enjoy neither reflects nor shapes your character, why do it? Why introduce slavery to a setting if doing so doesn't affect the players in the way that you want them to be affected?

I get people who say that they want to use the game to work through their issues. I get the people who say that the game helps them in their daily life in various ways, e.g. honing their inter-personal skills or strategic thinking or learn something historical. I create and perform these fictions because I think it helps me and others in various ways and I avoid creating other kinds of fictions because I dislike hearing the sadist's giggle.

But spending hours upon hours and hundreds of dollars on something that has no bearing on their life? That, I don't get.

Sometimes you just don't understand people, that's the nature of people. In the same way you can't get Alzrius I can't get you. Nothing wrong with that we're just not the same. His last post also has good answers that go for me as well.

 

[Bardsandsages]

There is something cathartic about allowing yourself to play around with your dark half. Assuming that a person who roleplays purchasing slaves has something wrong with them also assumes a person who writes horror stories has something wrong with them. I've killed, maimed, and brutalized plenty of people...in my writing. I've never had the urge to do so in real life.

Do I enjoy writing horror? Of course I do. Do I want to bring that horror into my real life? No way.

Context is always the key. I've played evil characters. I've played evil characters that owned slaves. But in the context of the game, it made sense for the character. One was a Force Witch in a Star Wars game, which came from a culture where everyone had a few slaves. The other was a Red Wizard. In both cases, it was a logical extension of the character.

On the other hand, I once gamed with a guy who...well...let's say that if he was playing a character with female slaves then he wasn't doing so because it was an extension of the character, but his own perverse fantasies. And it was disturbing enough that I quickly left the game group. The slaves were not a part of the game's context, but his own desires.

So context and intent are the key issues, not the owning of slaves themselves.

 

[Elf Witch]

As a woman I do understand why rape is often a taboo subject. I would never have a PC in my game raped if captured. I think it can be a subject that some people find to unpleasant to deal with. And thus it would make the game unfun.


But I don't get if you play so much idea that it can effect your basic personality. In DnD we kill and loot all the time. Taking rangerrogue idea that it says something about your personality to have these fantasies then what does that say about a person who makes a killing machine?

As far as looting in real life I hate looters ,after going through several hurricanes and then watching thse low life scum come out of the woodwork stealing from people and businesses just because they can makes me sick. But in DnD I loot away.

I play Shadowrun and as runner I am playing someone on the wrongside of the law I make my living breaking the law, stealing information, kidnapping people and sometimes killing security guards just for being in my way. I have been playing Shadowrun for over ten years and I have never had rhe desire to go live on the wrong side of the law nor have I seen this desire in my fellow players.

I know several horror writers and away from the writing desk they are not homicidal maniacs getting off on making other human beings suffer.

People who end up acting out their dark side do so because there is something wrong with them it has little do with if they watched violent TV or read horrror novels or play first shooter video games or play Vampire or DnD. I have never bought the argument that it was something like a game that made a person snap and go on a killing rampage.

These people were broken sick people before they got involved in games or horror fiction.

Now I do agree that as a player and a DM you need to make sure everyone is having fun at the table and making your fellow players uncomfortable is something that you should try to avoid.

 

[Turanil]

I see this thread heading to a fast locking...