Vampires don't scare me anymore.

Joker

First Post
It’s a sad fact. At least, for me it is. At work, talking with my Dm about AD&D, he pointed out how much harder it was to make the saves back then. It was more exciting back then, so much more thrilling and dangerous. Now it feels like it’s all about the magic items and how as efficiently possible you can distribute them amongst the slots available (as you reach higher levels). In the creators’ attempts to explain everything and engineer a system that is simple, accessible and logical, they have in my oh so humble opinion stripped away all the mystery and magic of role-playing. It has become a game of numbers first with role-playing a distant second. Everyone knows the stats, it seems, and nothing has remained sacred.
I have all three core books and a few splat books, but why did I buy them? I am not a Dm. Sometime in the future I will be and probably only for Alternity but now and in the past I have had no use for them except to have access to those things that I really shouldn’t have: The monsters’ stats, the magic items, everything.
As a sixth level barbarian in an AD&D campaign my party once confronted a vampire. It was still day and we came across a rundown tower/stronghold. We walked inside and looked around. The floors cracked, light was seeping through holes in the ceiling and walls. We thought it was abandoned. I went into the basement: it was empty. Except for a door leading to something even lower. Being the sensible one in the group I opened it. It opened with a noise that would wake a dead man. I peered my head inside with my torch preceding it. I couldn’t see anything but then again the light from my torch didn’t illuminate all the walls. I jumped in, my heart pounding (and I’m not talking about my character). I landed as soft as I could with my arsenal of weapons (I had Multiple Specialization J) onto the sandy floor. The light illuminated the wall behind me but not the wall ahead and this room was only about four meters wide. I grabbed my +1 longsword and slowly moved forward. I was alone there. My “friends” didn’t feel like joining me. I was scared, I mean, really scared. We had heard that there may have been vampires here but I had no idea what they could do. I was the only one in our group who had a +1 weapon, but I doubted that I would stand a chance against a vampire. As I moved forward the silhouettes of four coffins standing upright started to appear, leaning against the far wall. I wanted to run but I decided that since it was still day we could bring them upstairs (as they were still sleeping) and expose them to the sun. They had been plaguing the nearby town, so I was thinking I could get a reward or something. However, by the time I got one of the coffins up there it was already dark and the coffin started moving violently. We had tied up the coffin with a long piece of rope but as soon as the vampire punched straight through the coffin, I ran. I ran as fast as I could.

The thing is, I was scared because I didn’t know a thing about them. Except maybe that they were allergic to garlic and silver but little more. Also, you didn’t stand a chance if you didn’t have a silver or +1 weapon. Now that is also somewhat true but acquiring a +1 weapon is not exactly a real trial. I mean 2000gp? Come on. A full-plate in the olden days was 15000gp and you wouldn’t get that kind of money any time soon.

If I meet a vampire now, I doubt I’ll be afraid, I know it’s strengths and it’s weaknesses. If I lose some con (or whatever ability it is you lose) I’ll have it restored, just like everything else can be restored, it seems.

However, I may just be melancholy and looking at the past through rose-colored glasses. If I think about it, we probably didn’t role-play that much back then either. Still, multi-classing was rarely done, but now…Brrr.

Am I the only one? Am I the only one who feels that D&D 3E isn’t as exciting as 2E?
 

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Joker said:
Am I the only one? Am I the only one who feels that D&D 3E isn’t as exciting as 2E?

This seems to me to be more of a matter of familiarity with the monsters and such than with the edition in question. If you knew all of a vampires capabilities and weaknesses in 2e, wouldn't you be feeling the same disappointment?

Maybe your DM should start mixing things up. If you swagger into a vampire lair redolent of garlic and burdened with silver, you may find that he's using a different vampire template (the Ravenloft book has several) and all of your preparations have come to naught...

J
 

It's not so much my familiarity with the monsters that bothers me and trust me when I say that my Dm is quite resourceful.

It's this:

Joker said:
In the creators’ attempts to explain everything and engineer a system that is simple, accessible and logical, they have in my oh so humble opinion stripped away all the mystery and magic of role-playing. It has become a game of numbers first with role-playing a distant second.
I’ll have it restored, just like everything else can be restored, it seems.

However, I may just be melancholy and looking at the past through rose-colored glasses. If I think about it, we probably didn’t role-play that much back then either. Still, multi-classing was rarely done, but now…Brrr.
 

i've figured out an easy way to put the fear back into players.

No more clerics

Remove the Cleric class, and suddenly, everything starts getting a lot more scary.
 

So... the fact that vampires now fit the rules, and make sense within those rules, takes the magic away from them?

By that, none of the creatures in the Monster Manual should mean anything. After all, they're just collections of numbers.
 

All versions of D&D have been games that are "about numbers" to some degree. At least in 3rd edition, the saving throw difficulty often scales upward as the creatures get tougher.

The more the rules are detailed and spelled out, the less judgement and guesswork is left to the DM. Some see that as a good thing, some feel that there's a downside to it.
 

Players don't need anything but the PHB, but they are much better served by having them if they wish to purchase magic items or summon monsters. A barbarian doesn't need to worry as much about that.

Quite honestly, what you're experiencing is nostalgia, IMHO. 3e can have as much or as little flavor as your DM desires...and just because the rules are there, doesn't mean the DM has to strictly follow them, or even use them at all, per se.

Take a look at Piratecat's story hour. A few tweaks here and there, and a monsters abilities are unknown and frightening. This most recent session, I threw four elementally templated and advanced Behirs at my players, with odd descriptions for their details. They loved it. They all have MMs, but none of them had ever faced a Behir before, even if they could eyeball them, which they couldn't. Vampires can be that way again, too. Especially since vampires, being such a universal monster, don't have to adhere to the DMG template.

The difference now is your DM can at least gauge how to make a vampire that follows the same rules as everyone else, regardless of whether or not he's a fair challenge for you.
 
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That can kinda happen with over-familiarity with the system. I tend to feel that way playing D&D sometimes just because I know it's D&D and it automatically causes my brain to think a certain way, even when I don't know the details of what I'm facing. Some quick and dirty modifications make it play very differently in terms of what your players expect, I've found. Change up the classes, add a few house rules, and call your game something different, and it plays very differently. I've run a few trials of my d20 Modern adaptation to "traditional" fantasy using d20 Call of Cthulhu style magic, and found that my players tend to think like different people just because they're not playing D&D, strictly speaking anyway. In actuality, the game doesn't really play all that differently than I would run a D&D game (although magic is much less reliable and common, naturally) but the feel is different because the players are just a little out of their element that they've been comfortably nestled in for decades.
 
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Re: Re: Vampires don't scare me anymore.

Joker said:
It's not so much my familiarity with the monsters that bothers me and trust me when I say that my Dm is quite resourceful.

Well, you say that, but your example tells a different story:

Joker said:
As a sixth level barbarian in an AD&D campaign my party once confronted a vampire...I was scared, I mean, really scared. We had heard that there may have been vampires here but I had no idea what they could do...I ran. I ran as fast as I could.

The thing is, I was scared because I didn’t know a thing about them. Except maybe that they were allergic to garlic and silver but little more...

If I meet a vampire now, I doubt I’ll be afraid, I know it’s strengths and it’s weaknesses.
[/B]

I mean, you could memorize the stats in 2e just as easily as you could in 3e, and that would take all of the mystery out of them, too. The fact that you didn't seems to be why you were scared then, and not scared now - but that's got nothing to do with the edition. If you fought enough vampires in 2e, you'd be having the same reaction, because you'd know all of their abilities from experience.

J
 

even more fun the removing the cleric is throwing in evil cleric.

An evil cleric of the same level as your party's cleric can hand out just as much damage as your cleric can heal. It's really cool going cleric to cleric with inflict/cure spells.
 

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