Vancian Anchor

As

a powerful wizard proponent, I do agree with having serious drawbacks and risks to using such power. Fireball was something that would often kill you and your own party if you had a DM that actually followed the rules (e.g., it was volumetric in earlier editions, meaning if you cast it down a corridor it might engulf you, way down, if you weren't savvy enough to do some mental calculations). Same thing for lightning bolt, you could kill a number of enemies outright with it, but if it bounces back and hits you, you're toast. Count the range, be careful. Look at the surroundings.

This is one aspect of balancing of the wizard : risky spells. Even teleport in AD&D was taking your entire party's lives at risk. You become 7th level, get access to 4th level spells so you can cast teleport, but wait, there's a good chance you will die unless you scry the location or know it beforehand. So you save up for a magic mirror, or cast it while in the palace bathroom. If you're in the middle of combat, you will likely only have time to cast it towards somewhere you are intimately familiar with. One trick I learned was to cast fly or feather fall on the whole party (or people strong enough to carry the others, or take the falling damage), and TP to a few tens of feet in the air, so even if the spell target is too low, you won't end up in the floor.

But of course we can go further. If the game is meant to be flatter in terms of power progression, but not make wizards just completely bored /useless while still keeping them physical weaklings that must avoid melee combat like the plague (please, no more of this 4e stuff where the wizard never spends any surges because he's unafraid of death. insane defenses and medium HP make him more than capable of avoiding death, much, much, much more so and in AD&D for example), then let's find good ways to do it. I love that they're adding magic missile as an option for an at-will for wizards. I would have loved that in AD&D, I rarely used MM because I was usually better off casting wall of stone or fire or lightning bolt when I needed something dead. I only cast fireball twice in 5 years. Blowing up the countryside and setting the whole forest on fire is not something you do as a lawful good noble court wizard, even an evoker. But in a dungeon...? oh wait, not even there. I cast it once in the desert against an advancing army, but it turned out they would become our allies and I had a lot of service to do to help make up for it.

So yeah, an at-will signature spell, maybe less spells per day, maybe some type of workable dynamic metamagic ala Arcana Unearthed rules (a cool system by Monte Cook, IMO), maybe spells of a certain level don't go up in damage unless you empower them, all these things together could really balance the wizard a bit and still allow us smart players, to play a class where our wits are not only needed, but essential for basic survival. You don't survive in a D&D world as a weakling, even with powerful magic, unless you are lucky, cunning, smart, and plan ahead.
 

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In this instance the spellbook is the vancian anchor. The failure of 3.5 was in integrating the spellbook, and a requirement to read from it, as a source of weakness for the Wizard.

Were there ANY editions of D&D where casters were expected to cast directly from their spellbooks? I'm not sure why would single out 3.5 in that regard.

That said, my hazy recollection is that earlier editions DID make it harder for spellcasters to get off spells. If a spell took all round to cast or if you were beaten on initiative, you were pretty much screwed. Can anyone recall the 1st/2nd edition rules off the top of their heads?
 

This isn't just about WIZARDZ, YO.


This is about all spellcasters. All spellcasters derive their power from some source external to themselves. Even Sorcerers have dragonblood, and warlocks have tricky contracts signed in blood.


The desire here is to let the magic user have their flashy amazing, super human effects... but make the especially potent ones a form of faustian bargain in some form or another.


For the Wizard it's being tied to a spellbook, chants and incantations. For the Warlock it's being bound to fiendish masters (or worse).


For example, a Warlock might have an especially potent invocation that unlike most other invocations is usable only rarely that would be incredibly useful... but allows the dark powers to snatch away a party member (or even the warlock himself) and feed on their life force for several rounds before depositing their broken and bleeding body back on the battlefield.

Did you just summon a creature of the abyss? Roll to ensure you actually CAN maintain control over it. Every round. While chanting incantations in a low and menacing voice.
 

I don't agree with this at all. It really penalizes the wizard. How many rounds will it take to get out the spell book and find the spell? To many rounds then you have just taken the player out of the action. Which is a complaint I hear often enough about spells that hold or paralyze.

Secondly spell books are not paperbacks so it would take two hands to hold one so how does the wizard even defend himself if someone comes to attack does he just drop his book to pull a weapon?

I think there are better ways to balance a wizard's power then this..

*GASP*

You... you mean the guy with the funny hat and the beard that can summon extraplanar nightmare fuel to do his bidding... might... might HAVE A WEAKNESS?!?!?!?


Well... this... this WILL NOT DO!


Call the Schoolmaster!
 

*GASP*

You... you mean the guy with the funny hat and the beard that can summon extraplanar nightmare fuel to do his bidding... might... might HAVE A WEAKNESS?!?!?!?


Well... this... this WILL NOT DO!


Call the Schoolmaster!

There is a huge difference between have some built in weaknesses and making the class unfun to play.

A first level wizard is not summoning extraplanar anything and if he is lucky he has got maybe 6 to 10 hit points. So there is he fumbling for his spellbook out of his pack then opening and finding the spell and them maybe if he is still standing he can cast it.

That is one of the problems with these kind of limitations. Most people never look at how it effects lower already weak wizards.

If you want to take some of the magic power away at higher levels there are ways to do it while still keeping the class fun to play. You can take away the ease of crafting magical items, you can up the cost for certain high level spells, you can reduce the amount of damage spells do, you can make it easier to disrupt spells and counter them.
 

There is a huge difference between have some built in weaknesses and making the class unfun to play.

A first level wizard is not summoning extraplanar anything and if he is lucky he has got maybe 6 to 10 hit points. So there is he fumbling for his spellbook out of his pack then opening and finding the spell and them maybe if he is still standing he can cast it.

That is one of the problems with these kind of limitations. Most people never look at how it effects lower already weak wizards.

If you want to take some of the magic power away at higher levels there are ways to do it while still keeping the class fun to play. You can take away the ease of crafting magical items, you can up the cost for certain high level spells, you can reduce the amount of damage spells do, you can make it easier to disrupt spells and counter them.


And why why a level 1 wizard be casting timestop? Or any other spell that would require multiple rounds to cast due to the nature of its power?
 

And why why a level 1 wizard be casting timestop? Or any other spell that would require multiple rounds to cast due to the nature of its power?

So you want to do it for higher level spells only. But now you are changing how those spells are cast. Instead of using a different mechanic why not make the spell very expensive to cast? Or have it take a full round? I am not fond of different mechanics to cast spells for the same class. Also this only penalizes the wizard what about sorcerers who often cast the same spells or clerics whose domains give them access to some of these spells?

Besides timestop in of itself is not broken. Usually it is used to bring up your defenses, run away or to summon creatures. It is a ninth level spell why the need to make it hard to cast?

I get some people hate the way powerful magic works. I personally think that it is not the magic but the lack of creativity on DMs part to counter magic and the fact that in 3E magic items are to easy to make and metamagic can really up the power of a spell.
 

So you want to do it for higher level spells only. But now you are changing how those spells are cast. Instead of using a different mechanic why not make the spell very expensive to cast? Or have it take a full round? I am not fond of different mechanics to cast spells for the same class. Also this only penalizes the wizard what about sorcerers who often cast the same spells or clerics whose domains give them access to some of these spells?

Besides timestop in of itself is not broken. Usually it is used to bring up your defenses, run away or to summon creatures. It is a ninth level spell why the need to make it hard to cast?

I get some people hate the way powerful magic works. I personally think that it is not the magic but the lack of creativity on DMs part to counter magic and the fact that in 3E magic items are to easy to make and metamagic can really up the power of a spell.



Time Stop is powerful because it is incredibly open ended. Just like Shapechange is powerful. Just like Wish is powerful. Just like Gate is powerful.

These all have incredibly open ended effects. Unlike say, meteor swarm.. which can "do" relatively little.
 

So you want to do it for higher level spells only. But now you are changing how those spells are cast. Instead of using a different mechanic why not make the spell very expensive to cast? Or have it take a full round? I am not fond of different mechanics to cast spells for the same class. Also this only penalizes the wizard what about sorcerers who often cast the same spells or clerics whose domains give them access to some of these spells?

Besides timestop in of itself is not broken. Usually it is used to bring up your defenses, run away or to summon creatures. It is a ninth level spell why the need to make it hard to cast?

I get some people hate the way powerful magic works. I personally think that it is not the magic but the lack of creativity on DMs part to counter magic and the fact that in 3E magic items are to easy to make and metamagic can really up the power of a spell.

If Time Stop isn't broken, find another class feature of a non-caster that's equivalent to the 17th level ability to cast Time Stop.

Yeah, there isn't any. Time Stop reads 'Win Target Fight' (and that's without certain pieces of Time Stop cheese... Persistant Time Stop my ass).
 

Time stops effects everybody but the caster. While time stop is going on the caster cannot target any one who is time stopped nor effect any item carried, or on the person. So it is not a I win spell. If you make it persistent then you have screwed your party too.

As for it only being able to wizards, sorcerers and clerics with the trickery domain so what. It is magical and high magic at that. Wizards have to be 17 level and sorcerers 18.

There are a lot of magical things that non magical classes can't do. For example raise dead, meteor storm, lighting bolt.

And please tell me how you are winning?
 

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