Vancian Magic - Yes or No?

Should vancian magic remain a part of D&D when the next edition is published?

  • Yes, vancian magic is an important part of the D&D expirience and should not be removed.

    Votes: 131 53.7%
  • No, vancian magic should be replaced by a different system.

    Votes: 113 46.3%

I voted no because Vancian magic is one of the things that finally drove me from D&D, but it is one of the more recognizable mechanics of the system. It really comes down to the old saw of "If you change enough, at what point is it no longer D&D?"

Personally, I just found a system that suited my needs better and washed my hands of 3e, 3.5e and any future editions. I still play Basic D&D (Moldvay) from time to time out of nostalgia, but count me among the Savaged.
 

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the vancian system is lame, and man does it suck at higher levels. It takes bare min. of 15 minutes for the fire and forget losers to rework there spell lists. What fun I can comteplate my navel for 15 minutes every hour as tweedle dee and tweedle dumb rework what spells they'll have in there clerics and wizards spell lists.

And honestly it doesn't seem to represent D&D at all to me. Having a wizard with spells is D&D, a fire and forget system is just the unfortunate way D&D currently and has usually handled magic.
 


I voted Yes, because I honestly think that it's a quick & easy system to use and learn. When teaching (& trying to acquire) new players, the easier a system is, the better. It's one of the reasons why I like 3.X D&D the most--higher is better (unlike previous editions of the game).

However, I do think that an alternate system may be viable, provided that it's easy to use & learn. Spell points are cool, but it does demand a degree of micro-management that takes away from the ease of the game (& frankly, adds another number-pool other than Hit Points for a player to keep track of).

I'd prefer that the magic system would be a bit more generic. The protection from X spell would be 1 spell, though the caster would have to select an AL axis (good, evil, law, or chaos). The energy bolt spell would basically work like a lightning bolt, but the spellcaster would choose the type of energy used (lightning, sonic, fire, acid, cold, or magic/eldritch). It'd help cut down the volume of spells (to a degree).

I'd also prefer a system of spell prerequisites to be used again, to reflect the idea that a spellcaster is building/expanding on the knowledge gained before. For example, in order to cast fireball, a mage must first know how to cast burning hands, & possibly a few other fire-related spells. Or a mage may need to know mage hand before gaining fly, levitate, or telekinesis. In essence, the spellcaster knows only 1 spell, but his/her ability/application/power/mastery of the spell grows as the caster grows.

Then again, IMHO, I'd personally prefer that there'd be no distinction between magic & psionics, much less arcane & divine magic. I think that magic and psionics are basically different labels & methods of interpreting supernatural phenomena (the same could be said about super powers, as well).
 

Agback said:
Ah! That's how it happened.

If you don't mind my asking, which Vance works in particular had this stultifying effect?

Oh, cuts like a knife...

The Dying World stuff. Haven't tried anything else...

I have to say that I don't see why some people say that the 3e sorceror is move flavourful of all things than the wizard. I enjoy wizards, i enjoy the challenge of preperation and i think it's interesting.
 

Olive said:
Oh, cuts like a knife...
The Dying World stuff. Haven't tried anything else...
:D
Although I'm kind of a fan of Jack Vance's books I can understand that many people don't like them. Most of his plots are weak to near untraceable, and endings are definitely not his strength. On the other hand, he is near unbeatable in inventing interesting worlds with countless quirky details. Actually, I think his worlds are much more mineable for settings than other popular fantasy literature with main stress on plots and personalities. And that's how I use his goodies :D;).
 

Originally posted by Trainz:
But then, I also beleive it could snow in hell...
According to Dante, the ninth layer of Hell is an icy wastleland, so it's not inconceivable that it does get some snow...

Back on topic, I really like the Vancian magic system. Of course, Jack Vance is my all-time favorite author, bar none. I only recently found out he’s been writing mysteries for years under the name John Vance. My wife picked up The Pleasant Grove Murders for me for Christmas, and it was an enjoyable read as well. (Besides Sherlock Holmes, I never was much of a mystery fan.)

Johnathan
 

I've never had any problem with the D&D magic system. I would like some alternatives, but for wizards, I really like the prepare spell-cast spell-spell gone approach.
 

ciaran00 said:
It's an unnecessary holdover from 2nd edition that they were too lazy to fix.

Now tell us how you REALLY feel. :)

I like Vancian in regards to D&D, and D&D alone. It's tradition, call me old fashion (even in my late 20's). If I want variants, play something different. Pick up Ars Magica, Talislanta, Sorcerer: THe Crusade, Made: Dark Ages, Rolemaster, or whatever to get your fantasy magic fix. It doesn't not NEED the D&D brand logo on it to make it "sacred". There are too many damn good games to try and make D&D all of them. :)

PS this is not aimed at you ciaran, just teasing you about your STRONG statement. :p
 

Richards said:
Originally posted by Trainz:According to Dante, the ninth layer of Hell is an icy wastleland, so it's not inconceivable that it does get some snow...

Was it Cania? Ooh, does Dante mention Mephistopheles?

It's fun having the Manual of the Planes. :D
 

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