Variant Encounters: Gank the Guard!

[Tequila Sunrise]

After a thread some time ago involving the Gank the Guard situation -- in which the PCs try to kill guards/sentries before they can shout for help -- it occurred to me that 4e has no guidelines for this kind of encounter. Which is kind of odd, given how many great guidelines 4e has. So I've been play testing it, and a simple out-of-combat set of Stealth rules that I think are pretty spiffy!

Guard Ganking: As you would probably guess, it's very hard to gank more than one standard monster during the surprise round. (Minions and goons are a different story.) Unless the whole party is ranged and/or charge focused, it's practically impossible -- even with all PCs starting the surprise round within 10 spaces of the monsters. So as a general rule, I don't suggest more than one standard guard -- unless of course you don't intend Gank the Guard to be an option.

Of course, minions and goons are easier to kill so here's what I do suggest for a 4-PC party: The guard/s should be 1) one standard monster, 2) two goons, or 3) four minions. If you're an encounter accountant, that means the guards should be worth 25% of an N-level XP budget. This gives a typical party a better than even chance of ganking the guard/s during the surprise round.

And of course in the next room, you'll want a regular encounter's worth of monsters ready to wake up and come to the guard's aid -- because even if the guard sounds the alarm, he'll probably be close to dead. (And if your players didn't bother trying to be stealthy, they deserve an extra tough encounter!)

Sneaking, TS Style: I also came up with some Stealth rules that make it a team sport, rather than "Okay, we all hang back an arbitrarily safe distance while the rogue sneaks ahead." Even unstealthy PCs will find it worthwhile to make one or two stealth checks, without fear of ruining the surprise round for everyone. Here's how it works:

Step 1: The PCs begin 40 spaces away from the guard. Archers might be content to stay put and simply initiate a surprise round from here, but some PCs will probably want to opt for option 2; sneak closer! PCs who want to get closer can move up 20 spaces (so they're now 20 spaces from the guard), and then roll a Stealth check with a +10 bonus.

Step 2: If any of the PCs fail to meet the guard's passive Perception, those PCs are no longer hidden. A surprise round is immediately triggered, during which only hidden PCs can act. If everyone beats the guard's Perception, the PCs again have the option of starting a surprise round or moving closer. This time PCs can only move 10 spaces (so they're now 10 spaces from the guard), and only get a +5 bonus.

Step 3: If any of the PCs fail, see above. Otherwise, they can opt to sneak closer. This time only move 5 spaces (so they're now 5 spaces from the guard), and they don't get a bonus.

Step 4: If any of the PCs fail...you know the drill. If any PC is ballsy enough to move even closer, he moves 5 more spaces to be adjacent to the guard, and takes a -5 penalty to his check.

I like these rules because they make sneaking more than a yes/no situation; players have meaningful decisions to make. And no decision immediately results in "Good going, Bob, you ruined the surprise round for everyone!" Players will have to think ahead to which weapon they want to use during surprise, but it affords everyone the chance of getting within reasonable distance.

So, thoughts, anecdotes, criticisms, this-is-how-I-do-its?

 

[Quickleaf]

I think you've got the kernel of a really good idea here.

One question I have is, let's say there's a Stealth optimized PC who is just "I want to get really frickin close to the guard so I can gank him with my knife/bare hands". Does that player have to make multiple Stealth checks? Or just one Stealth check?

Another question, what happens when Mr. Paladin fails his Stealth check to cover to 20 spaces while Mr. Assassin succeeds his check to advance adjacent to the target? Is it assumed Mr. Assassin already covered the extra 20 spaces over the course of the round (or whatever imaginary time unit we're using)?

 

[Starfox]

The easiest thing seems to act in normal rounds of round-robin action. A wise paladin will wait to move to 20 paces until the rogue is already in position.

 

[Balesir]

For what it might be worth, I have been developing a means to handle this sort of thing using the skill challenge rules as a structure/basis. It works roughly like this:

- Get from the players a plan of what they intend to do; who wants to sneak to where, who wants to prepare what, etc.

- Assign skill rolls (or power uses or rituals or whatever) to the various elements of the plan. Total the number required and thus assess the plan as a skill challenge (i.e. assign a complexity = checks needed / 2 - 1). Assign the DCs for the skill checks - hard ones for the hard elements, like the rogue sneaking up to near-melee range, and easier for the easy elements. You can do this either by selecting a level for the challenge and using level-appropriate DCs, or by using (modified, maybe) Passive Perceptions and such like and then assessing a challenge level by comparing the DCs chosen to the DC table; it really doesn't matter which you use, just be consistent.

- Take the XP value of the skill challenge you ended up with. Reduce the encounter xp total by this amount via a combination of removing guards who won't get called if the original guards are successfully "ganked" and converting the "on duty" guards to minions.

- Successful skill checks complete the relevant element of the plan. Failed rolls require another improvised plan element to get things back on track, and might additionally reverse part of the XP reduction you did last step - e.g. one of the 'on duty' guards stops leaning on his spear looking somnolent and perks up, signalling that he is no longer a minion, but has reverted to a standard creature.

- Three failures blows the gaff - one of the "on duty" guys raises the alarm and the combat commences with plan elements part finished and maybe potential for surprise on both sides...

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

After a thread some time ago involving the Gank the Guard situation -- in which the PCs try to kill guards/sentries before they can shout for help -- it occurred to me that 4e has no guidelines for this kind of encounter. Which is kind of odd, given how many great guidelines 4e has. So I've been play testing it, and a simple out-of-combat set of Stealth rules that I think are pretty spiffy!

Guard Ganking: As you would probably guess, it's very hard to gank more than one standard monster during the surprise round. (Minions and goons are a different story.) Unless the whole party is ranged and/or charge focused, it's practically impossible -- even with all PCs starting the surprise round within 10 spaces of the monsters. So as a general rule, I don't suggest more than one standard guard -- unless of course you don't intend Gank the Guard to be an option.

Defining this as a non-standard encounter is key. I think most DMs would just plop down three guards and two crossbowmen.

Of course, minions and goons are easier to kill so here's what I do suggest for a 4-PC party: The guard/s should be 1) one standard monster, 2) two goons, or 3) four minions. If you're an encounter accountant, that means the guards should be worth 25% of an N-level XP budget. This gives a typical party a better than even chance of ganking the guard/s during the surprise round.

And of course in the next room, you'll want a regular encounter's worth of monsters ready to wake up and come to the guard's aid -- because even if the guard sounds the alarm, he'll probably be close to dead. (And if your players didn't bother trying to be stealthy, they deserve an extra tough encounter!)

Sneaking, TS Style: I also came up with some Stealth rules that make it a team sport, rather than "Okay, we all hang back an arbitrarily safe distance while the rogue sneaks ahead." Even unstealthy PCs will find it worthwhile to make one or two stealth checks, without fear of ruining the surprise round for everyone. Here's how it works:

Step 1: The PCs begin 40 spaces away from the guard. Archers might be content to stay put and simply initiate a surprise round from here, but some PCs will probably want to opt for option 2; sneak closer! PCs who want to get closer can move up 20 spaces (so they're now 20 spaces from the guard), and then roll a Stealth check with a +10 bonus.

Step 2: If any of the PCs fail to meet the guard's passive Perception, those PCs are no longer hidden. A surprise round is immediately triggered, during which only hidden PCs can act. If everyone beats the guard's Perception, the PCs again have the option of starting a surprise round or moving closer. This time PCs can only move 10 spaces (so they're now 10 spaces from the guard), and only get a +5 bonus.

Step 3: If any of the PCs fail, see above. Otherwise, they can opt to sneak closer. This time only move 5 spaces (so they're now 5 spaces from the guard), and they don't get a bonus.

Step 4: If any of the PCs fail...you know the drill. If any PC is ballsy enough to move even closer, he moves 5 more spaces to be adjacent to the guard, and takes a -5 penalty to his check.

I like these rules because they make sneaking more than a yes/no situation; players have meaningful decisions to make. And no decision immediately results in "Good going, Bob, you ruined the surprise round for everyone!" Players will have to think ahead to which weapon they want to use during surprise, but it affords everyone the chance of getting within reasonable distance.

So, thoughts, anecdotes, criticisms, this-is-how-I-do-its?

Good points: I like giving the non-stealthy PCs options (and PCs options for continually winning Stealth checks).

I think there should be a Bluff option too. PCs who appear as if they "should be there" might be ignored until they're right up to the guards, or non-stealthy PCs could distract the guards, setting up some devastating sneak attacks from the stealthier PCs. (Distraction can enable PCs to sneak up on enemies even if they have clear line of sight.)

I do not like the +10 Stealth bonus, that's giving me flashbacks to 3.x invisibility, where spotting a hidden opponent was basically impossible. In addition, any well-designed guard outpost is going to give clear line of sight to the guards anyway. Even with a Stealth result of 40, if there's no cover or concealment between the PCs and the guards, the guards will spot them, and wonder why they're obviously sneaking around or hiding under a cloak of invisibility.

I guess I'm suggesting:
1) Drop the Stealth bonus. (Give the guards a chance!)
2) Make Bluff integral as well. At least some of the PCs are going to be seen, so they need to "manage the expectations" of the guards.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

One question I have is, let's say there's a Stealth optimized PC who is just "I want to get really frickin close to the guard so I can gank him with my knife/bare hands". Does that player have to make multiple Stealth checks? Or just one Stealth check?

Theoretically he makes just as many Stealth checks as the other PCs, but he probably can't fail the first check or two so I wouldn't even have him roll.

The easiest thing seems to act in normal rounds of round-robin action. A wise paladin will wait to move to 20 paces until the rogue is already in position.

Yup. I forgot to explain my modus operandi, but you got it: one player sneaks at a time. The order is up to the players, so smart players will let the rogue-type PCs sneak first; in fact they'd probably let the rogue-types move up until the rogue-types actually risk failure. Because what's the point in the paladin risking a botched Stealth check while the rogue can move closer risk-free?

I think there should be a Bluff option too. PCs who appear as if they "should be there" might be ignored until they're right up to the guards, or non-stealthy PCs could distract the guards, setting up some devastating sneak attacks from the stealthier PCs. (Distraction can enable PCs to sneak up on enemies even if they have clear line of sight.)

Good idea! I've been meaning to write up a guideline for Bluffing into a surprise round, anyway.

I do not like the +10 Stealth bonus, that's giving me flashbacks to 3.x invisibility, where spotting a hidden opponent was basically impossible. In addition, any well-designed guard outpost is going to give clear line of sight to the guards anyway. Even with a Stealth result of 40, if there's no cover or concealment between the PCs and the guards, the guards will spot them, and wonder why they're obviously sneaking around or hiding under a cloak of invisibility.

I should have mentioned that this whole scenario assumes that sneaking is even an option -- a well designed guard post wouldn't even allow for sneaking. (Alert guards, bare ground, unobstructed view.) My guidelines are intended for less-than-ideal guard conditions.

As to the bonuses, I think they're necessary. First, because distance does make sneaking easier. And secondly because without bonuses, sneaking is practically impossible for an entire party of PCs. Even if the guard has only an average Perception, that means that unstealthy PCs fail half their Stealth checks. This makes it overwhelmingly unlikely that an unstealthy PC will get anywhere near the guard. And the risk of rolling low enough to fail can really add up even for stealthy PCs. Unless of course a PC's stealth is high enough that he can't fail at all, in which case we've created a situation in which the rogue sneaks right up next to the guard while everyone else says "We'll stay 40 spaces away and just plink the guard with our long bows."

In other words, the guard already has a huge advantage -- the PCs are rolling multiple checks to get within a reasonable distance of him, and chances are fair that somebody will roll low.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Check out Break & Enter, Stealth Encounters . It has the best variant rules for this sort of deal I have seen yet. The biggest deal is that is merges seamlessly with the normal combat rules and can be used during 'normal' combat when a sneaky character joins/rejoins the fight.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

For what it might be worth, I have been developing a means to handle this sort of thing using the skill challenge rules as a structure/basis. It works roughly like this:

- Get from the players a plan of what they intend to do; who wants to sneak to where, who wants to prepare what, etc.

- Assign skill rolls (or power uses or rituals or whatever) to the various elements of the plan. Total the number required and thus assess the plan as a skill challenge (i.e. assign a complexity = checks needed / 2 - 1). Assign the DCs for the skill checks - hard ones for the hard elements, like the rogue sneaking up to near-melee range, and easier for the easy elements. You can do this either by selecting a level for the challenge and using level-appropriate DCs, or by using (modified, maybe) Passive Perceptions and such like and then assessing a challenge level by comparing the DCs chosen to the DC table; it really doesn't matter which you use, just be consistent.

- Take the XP value of the skill challenge you ended up with. Reduce the encounter xp total by this amount via a combination of removing guards who won't get called if the original guards are successfully "ganked" and converting the "on duty" guards to minions.

- Successful skill checks complete the relevant element of the plan. Failed rolls require another improvised plan element to get things back on track, and might additionally reverse part of the XP reduction you did last step - e.g. one of the 'on duty' guards stops leaning on his spear looking somnolent and perks up, signalling that he is no longer a minion, but has reverted to a standard creature.

- Three failures blows the gaff - one of the "on duty" guys raises the alarm and the combat commences with plan elements part finished and maybe potential for surprise on both sides...

I like this version. You can set several distances that will be arrived at with different successes, so if the party gets say 3 successes and then 3 fails you can say "OK, you made is so far and then things went bad". I'd generally go with a complexity 1 challenge for this sort of stuff, but of course its possible there could be some more intricate situations.

 

[Unwise]

I had my PCs raid a bandit camp a while back. I just had a simple rule that every guard counted as a minion until the provebial hit the fan. The players loved it, they felt like ninja or navy seals moving in tactically picking off guards here and there...then that sudden change, when a guard found a body they forgot to hide and suddenly all those minions around them became standard monsters. It is more abstracted that I would sometimes use, but it worked so well that I think I will use it again.

 

[pemerton]

Some interesting ideas here. I'm definitely a fan of using the minon/standard toggle to help with this sort of scenario.