Various paladin questions

[Decamber]

Hello!

I'm having a hard time figuring out what the stereotype paladin of Ilmater is like. Please, tell me what you think on these points:

1) Combat - How would the stereotype act in combat? Is he offensive? Defensive?

2) Party member - How does he work in a party? What's his role?

3) Diety conflicts - How would the paladin react if he found out he's working with a person of another diety? Say there are two people: one of a good/neutral diety and one of an evil one.

4) Does the paladin have to have the same opinions on exactly EVERY topics as his God? Ex: Say the God loves children and muffins, does the paladin have to do that?

Thank you!

 

[Neowolf]

I'm not sure how to answer number 1, so I'll just move on to 2 & 3.

2. The way I've always played paladins is to have them be the confident one in the group: when things look grim, you've got to be the one who inspires hope and courage in the other characters. Maybe even a leader of sorts, when no one else has the answers.

3. I don't think paladins would have problems necessarily with those who follow other deities, so long as the other deity is a good one. Obviously, a paladin wouldn't be willing to travel with worshippers of evil deities, as that's a violation of his code of ethics.

 

[Lord Dalen]

I'll take quick stab at #1. From a outside point of view, you really want your paladin to be a strong fighter. He's big, he's tough, he knows how to use his weapons effectively. He's got those great saves. He's one of those guys that needs to be in the front lines bashing heads and kickings evils' tail.

From a characters' perspective though, that leaves you lots of options. Alot is going to depend on his relationship to his diety and how he follows that ethos. Ilmater, unfortunately is not a god I'm familiar with, since I play in a unique world with a unique pantheon of gods. If your god is proviolence, and a kind of take it to them god, you'd probably lead off every battle with a charge and run headlong into the teeth of the bad guys. If your god is one of healing, then you might have him move as a flanking attacker, giving him the ability to pull out of an egagement and move to heal any fallen or overly injured party members, while still taking apart the bad guys a piece at a time.

Personally, I'm playing a paladin, who follows a more defensive stance. He doesn't make the first attack, but he does make the last one. He's got the attitude of, "I'm drawing a line in the sand, and you shall not pass". Then he waits for the bad guys to charge him, instead. If they do, they get beaten severely, since he's in the finest armors and shields available, and thus nearly impossible for monsters to hit. If the bad guys flee in terror, thats ok too. It just gets them out of the way so he can continue his quest. Its really just going to depend on how you want him to behave in combat.


#2 and #3 - As for party member reactions, I'm going to agree with wolf. He should be confident in his beliefs and he's not afraid to share them. After all, he's in the full favor and blessing of his diety and his abilities and powers show it to the world. That kinda thing is bound to go to your head a little. That doesn't mean he's an evangelist, mind you... but a case could be made for that mode also. He'll get along with most anyone with a good diety, and neutrals and he will probably never be close friends, but will work together, so long as the means AND the ends justify the paladin's involvement. Once he knows that one of the group he's around is evil, he will refuse to work with them, unless they are seriously trying to reform and be good. But, at the first hint of evil activity, he will confront them.


#4 - As for the opinions of your specific paladin, those are left open to interpretation. Just because Ilmater likes muffins and children, your paladin doesn't have to like them too. Its just kinda recommended. Then there are the eternal questions of... what type of muffins? He might really approve of blueberry, and hate strawberry. He still likes at least some muffins. Same goes for children. And anything else for that matter. Your gods likes and dislikes are kind of a road map to your everyday life and activities. They don't share the exact same beliefs, likes and dislikes however. After all, there are a few thousand roads that will take you to the same destination. They just might have a few more twists and turns involved. In the end, it again comes down to how you want him to be, and then justifying it in terms of his life, his god, and his code. Then sticking to it of course, as any good DM is going to challenge those opinions.



Hopefully, this will help out a little bit. I've really enjoyed playing my paladin. He's been a fun experience. Hope you enjoy playing yours too. Paladin's are a little limited in the options they can use, and so forth. But, they're fun to whoop up on evil with.

 

[Darkchylde]

I'm looking through Faiths and Pantheons and this is my take:

1. I would say he would be protective (defensive) but would also be very focused. I also think he would be merciful if mercy was asked for...he is after all trying to alleviate suffering.

2. He may be a pain in the butt in a party. Under the dogma section of Faiths and Pantheons (pg 31) it says "stick to a cause that is right, whatever the pain or peril. There is no shame in a meaningful death. Stand up to all tyrants, and allow no injustice to go unchallenged. Emphasize the spiritual nature of life over the existence of the material body." He would probably be so focused as to piss everyone else off and may take on a bit more than he can chew sometimes. A cleric would be a good companion for him, they could discuss spirituality all the time, even a cleric of a different good or neutral faith.

3. Ilmater seems to get along with other deities, however, if he found out another pc was dealing with an evil deity I think the paladin would request the person to convert. If the person continued worshiping the evil deity (and was not evil himself) then the paladin would distance himself from that person...leaving the party if the person didn't. If the person is evil...then some tail whooping is needed. Ilmater seems to be an opponent of tyranny so gods of strife and tyranny (ie Bane and Cyric) would definitely draw the ire of the paladin from the get go.

4. No the paladin doesn't have to have the same opinions, except for the major ones that brought him into the religion in the first place. I do think though that the paladin would try to develop those views, using his god as a "role model".

These are all simply my thoughts for my favorite class.

 

[LostSoul]

#2 and #3 - As for party member reactions, I'm going to agree with wolf. He should be confident in his beliefs and he's not afraid to share them.

He should be (see how relevant Charisma is to the class), but he doesn't have to be. A paladin can be full of self-doubt and still walk the straight and narrow.

The Paladin in my game is agressive. He likes to use the threat of force to get things done (or force itself).

In the party, he's rather quiet and keeps to himself; but he's sure about what he wants to do and what his "quest" is.

Diety conflicts: since a paladin could worship a god that is also worshipped by Evil clerics, there will obviously be some kind of conflict. Most of it should be inner - is he more Lawful than Good?

 

[Decamber]

Thanks for the replies, all of you! I've come up with one more question now:

As Darkchylde said, Ilmater's dogma includes "stand up to all tyrants, and allow no injustice to go unchallenged", as well as "help all who hurt, no matter who they are". Last gaming session, I was in a problematic situation...

There was a man who we caught with a waggon with slaves. The man was of non-evil alignment; two out of four slaves were evil. The man (let's call him Anders) had bought the two evil slaves in a country where they by court had got the punishment to be slaves, so according to the law Anders hadn't done anything illegal. However, where we found Anders was in another country, where slavery is illegal, so therefor he had done something illegal. And my paladin thinks that slavery is evil. We talked with Anders, and as we said we had to take him to the guards, he begged for his life that we should let him go, and the only reason why he had bought the slaves was to sell them and earn money to support his family. (He invested in slaves, that is. )

What would be the most appropriate thing for my paladin to do? Remember the dogma: "stand up to all tyrants, and allow no injustice to go unchellanged" - Anders had done something illegal in (in my character's point of view) evil; and "help all who hurt, no matter who they are" - Anders couldn't support his wife and children, and his general alignment wasn't evil.

Thank you!

 

[LostSoul]

What would be the most appropriate thing for my paladin to do? Remember the dogma: "stand up to all tyrants, and allow no injustice to go unchellanged" - Anders had done something illegal in (in my character's point of view) evil; and "help all who hurt, no matter who they are" - Anders couldn't support his wife and children, and his general alignment wasn't evil.

Buy the slaves off Anders, then set them free (or escort them to the other country, or the guard, whatever). That way you help both Anders' family and the slaves (who are hurting, I'm sure).

 

[Valmur_Dwur]

Ok i'll step into this one Which BTW is what a Paladin usually does As to the first set of questions it still comes down to how YOU see a Paladin of Ilmater acting(with DM approval of course). Because Ilmater is a sort of "take the world's pain" type of god doesn't mean his clerics and paladins can't help "lighten" Ilmater's load. Look at it this way, let's take one of your "evil" aligned slaves that "anders" purchased. He may have prayed to Ilmater when he was being beaten or when his idea of needing the help of Ilmater arose. In the very next (minute, hour, day) he may have said a prayer to Bane or another evil God to please kill his slaveowner. So are clerics and paladin's supposed to right every evil? Probably by the description only the "evil" the cleric or paladin feels strongly about. Now on to the next question about what to do. I disagree with Lost Soul about buying the slaves and setting them free for the following reasons. You haven't taught the slaves or Anders anything. Anders still gets paid so he figures he must be more circumvent in buying slaves so that the next time he comes upon "adventurers" they don't just free his slaves without paying him. Think about the slaves, they're happy they're free but what do they do? You give them some money and sent them on their way, to where? Perhaps all they know is that they are to be somewhere told what to do when to do it. And the "evil" slaves do you just let them go? Know that the paladin knows they are evil he can't in good concience just let them walk away. The solution I have? Free the slaves first, explain to "anders" that buying slaves to sell again is wrong and isn't a good idea since one of these times the slave owners of the other land may decide "anders" would make a good slave. Finally offer "employment" to all the slaves so that they can feel as a useful part of society and your Paladin can keep an eye on the evil ones to gauge the "evilness" of their souls. Of course if the ex-slaves don't want to be hired then allow them to leave with a little pocket money to get them to the next town. Give "anders" money to help his family and explain that another line of income should be looked for. whew WAY too LONG