D&D 5E Vecna's Dread Counterspell vs. Counterspell -- What's the Diff?

[Charlaquin]

My point is that is not RAW. It says he needs to see the person, period. Him being aware a spell is being cast is a reasonable assumption, but it is not required by RAW.

But using the ability is a conscious act of will. A being cannot consciously act in response to something they’re unaware of.

 

[Parmandur]

No, there’s also the question of if he would, and if he doesn’t know it’s being cast, the only reasonable answer is no, he would not, because he wouldn’t know he has need to.

That doesn't enter into the RAW, that's fluff. He just can react, the how is left openeded, which can be suppled by fluff.

 

[Parmandur]

But using the ability is a conscious act of will. A being cannot consciously act in response to a trigger they’re unaware of.

Where in the RAW does it say that it is a conscious act of will? Maybe it is instinct, or a 9th Level Buff like a magical tripwire that sets off.

 

[dave2008]

It isn’t clear at all. Let me put it this way. Can he use it if he doesn’t know the creature he sees is casting a spell? Yes, in that he is capable of doing so. Would he do so? I can’t imagine how he would even think to do it unless he knew, which the text does not indicate he does.

By RAW it doesn't matter if he "knows." It just works. He could know, or it could be instinctual, or it could be a passive ability. By RAW, that doesn't matter. It similar to 4e monster powers which just told you what happened, not the narrative of why/how it happens.

 

[Mort]

No, there’s also the question of if he would, and if he doesn’t know it’s being cast, the only reasonable answer is no, he would not, because he wouldn’t know he has need to.

Maybe he just spams Dread Counterspell as a reaction to EVERY spellcasters turn as a default - why not?

Heck, maybe that's why Kas eventually revolted - "Oh my god - would you JUST shut up!"

It's a theory.

 

[Charlaquin]

That doesn't enter into the RAW, that's fluff. He just can react, the how is left openeded, which can be suppled by fluff.

He can’t just react. The conditions for using the ability are met, sure, but he has to choose to use the ability - it requires him to speak, after all - and he can’t make a choice about something he isn’t consciously aware of.

 

[dave2008]

But using the ability is a conscious act of will. A being cannot consciously act in response to something they’re unaware of.

Many creatures react to things unconsciously. Even humans. That is what training is for. If a fighter has to react consciously in a fight, they will likely loose. Heck, my children's judo teach taught them that when they were 10. And Venca has had 100,000 yrs to train.

 

[Charlaquin]

By RAW it doesn't matter if he "knows." It just works. He could know, or it could be instinctual, or it could be a passive ability. By RAW, that doesn't matter. It similar to 4e monster powers which just told you what happened, not the narrative of why/how it happens.

It isn’t just a passive ability though, he has to utter a dread word!

 

[dave2008]

He can’t just react.

Why not?

The conditions for using the ability are met, sure, but he has to choose to use the ability - it requires him to speak, after all - and he can’t make a choice about something he isn’t consciously aware of.

Do you have to be conscious to to speak? I mean people speak when they are sleeping, which is just about the definition of unconscious.

 

[Charlaquin]

Where in the RAW does it say that it is a conscious act of will? Maybe it is instinct, or a 9th Level Buff like a magical tripwire that sets off.

He SPEAKS A FRIGGIN WORD! That’s a conscious act of will.