D&D 5E Vecna's Dread Counterspell vs. Counterspell -- What's the Diff?

[Charlaquin]

Just to throw a REAL twist on this, and forgetting the "needs to know you are casting..." disagreement for just a moment:

Vecna just needs to see the caster, so per the wording (and the fact that Dread Counterspell is not a spell so does not necessarily follow the rules of line of effect etc.) Vecna can counterspell a caster he is scrying on!

Which means he can mess with the party from a long distance off and they will have a very difficult time figuring out what the heck is going on!

Oh damn, that’s awesome!

 

[LadyElect]

Just to throw a REAL twist on this, and forgetting the "needs to know you are casting..." disagreement for just a moment:

Vecna just needs to see the caster, so per the wording (and the fact that Dread Counterspell is not a spell so does not necessarily follow the rules of line of effect etc.) Vecna can counterspell a caster he is scrying on!

Which means he can mess with the party from a long distance off and they will have a very difficult time figuring out what the heck is going on!

But if it's a reaction and he is scrying on the party when they aren't in initiative order then how would he do it?

(note: absolutely not serious)

 

[Parmandur]

It is clear as written that he doesn’t need to see the spell being cast. It is not clear as written that he can activate the ability (which requires him to speak) without conscious awareness that it has a valid target.

That part is left open-ended, but there are multiple possible narrative solutions that work with something as outlandish as an Archlich. That he just knows seems clear from the RAW, and the RAI suggested by the Adventure.

 

[Leatherhead]

Does he have some ability know you’re casting if the spell has no components?

He does have the Detect Magic spell, but I don't think that was being accounted for to begin with.

 

[Mort]

But if it's a reaction and he is scrying on the party when they aren't in initiative order then how would he do it?

(note: absolutely not serious)

Oh he'd do it in combat all right (just not with him)!

I can just see the wizard player going "that's the 3rd time my shield has been counterspelled and I'm about to die! What the #@!?# is going on?"

Edit: and he can do it to 2-3 casters in the same round so the party REALLY won't know what's going on and might start to panic.

 

[Guest 7034872]

Oh he'd do it in combat all right (just not with him)!

I can just see the wizard player going "that's the 3rd time my shield has been counterspelled and I'm about to die! What the #@!?# is going on?"

That would be a delightful adventure in which to participate.

 

[LadyElect]

Oh he'd do it in combat all right (just not with him)!

Ah, you got me beat. After all, if I can attack a pillar to initiate my action then he can surely do the same to initiate combat!

 

[Mort]

That would be a delightful adventure in which to participate.

If you've pissed off Vecna enough for him to be scrying on you, you get what you get!

 

[FitzTheRuke]

That part is left open-ended, but there are multiple possible narrative solutions that work with something as outlandish as an Archlich. That he just knows seems clear from the RAW, and the RAI suggested by the Adventure.

Yeah, it's a bit circular: He has to know to do it, and it says he can do it, so it implies that he knows.

 

[Charlaquin]

That part is left open-ended, but there are multiple possible narrative solutions that work with something as outlandish as an Archlich.

I want to first understand how it’s supposed to work and then come up with a narrative explanation of how it works that way, not to use a narrative explanation to justify how I think it should work.

That he just knows seems clear from the RAW, and the RAI suggested by the Adventure.

I disagree that it’s clear from either. I could reasonably see that being the intent, but there is too much ambiguity for me to be confident that it is.