Vegetarians and the Single Man

[Umbran]

The decision was born out of her hypersensitivty to health, so I should mention that she avoids carbs on a regular basis, prefers high protein and low fat. She is not easy to please.

Hm, no she isn't. I'd like to point out that trying to avoid both meat and grains simultaneously is not a good "beginner" step to vegetarianism. For many folks, trying to be too abmitous to start with is a fast road to poor nutrition, which isn't going to help her health.

Not to mention that making a massive dietary change (with all the attendant frustration and anoyance) at the start of an emotional relationship is perhaps not the best plan?

If she's really health-conscous, might I suggest you tell her to do some research on gout? It is a condition brought on by high-protein diets, and has been on massive upswing since high-protein, low-carb deits became popular. It is something that's usually ignored by the diet books, because it really isn't a pleasant selling point.

I'm not at all against vegetarianism, but I think of it as somehting that one really shouldn't do lightly, or without thought and research. It is a large-scale change in how you run your life, and should be treated as such.

 

[blackshirt5]

bad boy bad (good boy good)

As long as you don't have a tongue stud, that is; I had one last year and Beth's teeth led me to disaster.

 

[diaglo]

Moosewood is your friend. and the followup Enchanted Broccoli Forest

 

[woodelf]

, oh, and consider some 'beano' or other digestive aid. you might want to slip it into her meal.

RX

You know, only people that don't eat beans (and roughage in general--like cabbage) enough get gas from it. If it's a regular part of your diet, you won't get gas. In fact, given our plant-matter-oriented digestive tract, you're more likely to get gas from red meat and certain dairy, until you build up a tolerance (as most USAians have). Heck, i eat plenty of meat (at least daily), and beans only infrequently (~weekly), but it's the meat (especially pork, followed by beef) that gives me gas. Well, and cabbage, but i only rarely eat that, and never by preference.

 

[Skade]

I'm not at all against vegetarianism, but I think of it as somehting that one really shouldn't do lightly, or without thought and research. It is a large-scale change in how you run your life, and should be treated as such.

When I said beginner, I should have said, she really doesn't know what's entailed in this choice. I mean, she's coming to me for advice, and I know almost nothing about it. Hearing negative things about vegetarianism is very useful also, because I'd like to help her make a better choice than starving herself or getting gout (eew). I am all for helping her do some reseacrh and set a diet, and myabe with a little chicken thrown in, I'd even follow it with her.

Oh, and about my eating meat. No, she has no problem with that, thankfully.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Generally speaking, if you cut out mean but ensure that your protein intake is ok, a vegetarian diet is more healthy than a omnivore diet. The primary benefit is the lack of fat ingested with the meat.

It's really hard to judge the overall healthfulness of veggie diets because vegetarians, being generally more health conscious, are more likely to take vitamins, excercise, and visit their doctor regularly. Which of these activities contribues more to their better overall health? It is difficult or impossible to measure.

The primary arguments for vegetarianism are:

1) Moral grounds. We don't have the right to end the lives of other creatures to sustain our own lives. Some people place greater importance on the lives of animals than others. It is pointless to debate this because people generally don't change their minds on the subject.

2) Health reasons. Generally speaking, your typical vegetarian diet is more healthy then your typical omnivoristic diet. It should be noted that it's possible to be perfectly healthy on either diet if you bother to watch what you eat, and possible to eat unhealithy on either diet, if you don't pay attention.

3) Environmental reasons: Meat takes enormous amounts of resources to produce. If the fields currently used to grow animal feed were devoted to producing vegetable human food, while eliminating livestock production, considerably more people could be fed total. There are other, more complex environmental arguments, including the laughable "cow farts" theory, which adds up the total amount of methane produced by the rear ends of cows worldwide and goes on to predict atmospheric devistation.

4) It feels better. Some vegetarians claim an ephemeral feeling of being more "clean" or "pure," or that they are living a more simple, down-to-earth life. If it makes you feel better about yourself as a person and the life you lead, it's hard to tell you not to do it.

IMPORTANT NOTE/DISCLAIMER!
It's possible to argue all these points one way or the other, and it's best to NOT have such discussions at EnWorld since tempers generally rise on both sides.
This information is given to help you better understand what might have motivated her to make this decision. It's often a subtle combination of all the reasons above. It might be primarily for health reasons, but almost always there is some influence from the other reasons too. You and her might be happier if you can figure out exactly what her fundamental motivations really are, especially in the area of not making a faux-pas at a bad moment.

Also, on a final note, a lot of people flirt briefly with vegetarianism and then abandon it. My wife and I did this - we were strict vegetarians for about 4 months. Then we decided it wasn't for us. So don't worry about relationship problems because of the different diets - either she'll give up on it, you'll grow to care too much about her to let diet get in the way, or you'll become a vegetarian yourself.

 

[Conaill]

The chinese stir-fry was emntioned before. If you're an amateur cook and willing to expand your culinary horizons, it's worth pointing out that there are lots of wegetarian cuisines in other parts of the world, especially where there is a large buddhist population. There are some excellent indian vegetarian cookbooks for example.

If she's only just starting as a vegetarian, start taking you newfound GF to some vegetarian or ethnic restaurants in the area, just to see what she likes. Then impress her by saying "I can make that!"

If she insists on sticking to a high-protein diet... try to become an expert at preparing tofu asap. Tofu has a bad reputation for being bland, but think of it as being similar to white bread: not much fun to eat all by itself, but it makes for a great "carrier" for other flavors.

 

[woodelf]

she is still at the beginners stage. In fact, she asked me to help her determine what constitutes a vegetarian.

She drinks milk, apparently life without milk is terrifying to her. She will eat seafood, but no other meats, including poultry. She is not sure about eggs yet.

In fact, we had sushi the day she told me this.

The decision was born out of her hypersensitivty to health, so I should mention that she avoids carbs on a regular basis, prefers high protein and low fat. She is not easy to please.

She wants a low-carb, high-protein diet without meat, or possibly without animal products? That's pretty much not gonna happen, at least not without significant dietary supplements (slimfast shakes and the like). The plant world is high-carb, high-roughage, middling-protein, low-fat.

If your motivation is health, moderation, not elimination, is the key word. In the case of meat, that should translate to no red meat, and not much chicken. Stick to oily fishes (those high in the Omega fatty acids--not cod/whitefish). Lowfat cheeses, skim milk, nonfat yogurt (make sure it has active cultures). Complex carbs are good, natural simple carbs are acceptable in reasonable quantities. Avoid concentrates, sport drinks, "health" shakes, and all such artificial foods if your primary goal is health--your body is better off with real food.

As i understand it, Atkins-style diets work by putting your system into perpetual overdrive, so it burns what food it *does* get, rather than storing it as fat. I'm concerned about the long-term affects on the body. And since a general problem for those with high metabolisms or big frames when going vegetarian (especially vegan) is getting enough food to eat (because of the absence of high-calorie animal proteins and fats), i don't think the two strategies will mesh well, even if you can figure out reasonable vegetarion foods to satisfy the low-carb requirement.

Anyway, while i personally believe that vegetarian is inherently healthier (so long as your aren't a "grilled-cheese vegetarian"--those who don't eat veggies/fruits, and then cut meat out of their diet), you don't need to be a vegetarian just to eat healthy. In fact, for most people, it may be harder to eat healthily as a vegetarian, just because, in our culture, we're so used to dietary habits that are dependent on the meat for crucial nutrients, and because so many people eat like crap in general so further unbalancing your diet is a very real risk when you cut the meat out. It's not as simple, in the typical diet, as eliminating meat--you're gonna need to increase several other things (and not just plant-based proteins). Though if more of us were vegetarians, it'd be a heck of a lot better for the environment. [Oh, speaking of which, if you're environmentally motivated, i'd definitely cut sea animals out of your diet--the oceans are horribly overfished, and rapidly depleting.]

 

[alsih2o]

IMPORTANT NOTE/DISCLAIMER!
It's possible to argue all these points one way or the other, and it's best to NOT have such discussions at EnWorld since tempers generally rise on both sides.
.

why bring it up and then ask people not to discuss it?

perhaps it is just my pet peeve, but bringin something up and asking others not to discuss it seems wrong.

i like merak, and have no problem with him personally, but i see more and more people doing this here.

"i think x, please do not comment" is it just me or does someone else share this pet peeve?

 

[diaglo]

"i think x, please do not comment" is it just me or does someone else share this pet peeve?

bringing up pet peeves is a pet peeve of mine.