Very disappointed in DU5: Sinister Woods

[avin]

After swearing I would never buy another Wotc dungeon tile again, all of a sudden another wilderness set...

The Plane Below (from some silly person around here who hates Modrons) was already on my shopping list and I decided to give Sinister Woods a shot, combining it on my Amazon cart.

... judging by the comments it's probably a decision I'm going to regret... =/

 

[Oryan77]

I’ll freely admit that you may have to buy least two sets if you want flexibility with each type of terrain.

I think people that buy tiles expect to buy multiple sets in order to use them efficiently. I buy at least 2 of each set and I don't mind...the tiles are always nice.

But I have to agree with MerricB, Sinister Woods was a disappointment, sorry
It's the only set so far that I only bought 1 copy of. I was really excited about it actually, for the same reasons as MerricB. But when I opened it, I even showed my wife what my problem was. There were just way too many large tiles filled with trees and way too many tiles with ruins on them.

I don't mind there being lots of trees cluttered on a tile, but not every tile. It would have been so much better if some of the smaller tiles were used as trees and some of the bigger tiles were less cluttered with trees. Then we could place the smaller tree tiles wherever we wanted on the bigger tiles. And I really don't see any need for so many ruin tiles...half of those could have been dedicated to the woods. But maybe others find them more useful than I do, so who knows.

But consider this....all these big tiles cluttered with trees like that, that's wasted space for us. I can't use that space. So what good is it to buy several large tiles if I can't set my minis on them? If I want to show a cluster of trees, I'd rather indicate that "dead space" on my battlemat and use the tiles as the area the minis can move around on. Even better would have been to have a single row of trees on the edge of the tiles in order to indicate a cluster of trees beyond them. Just like how the cavern tiles have the edge of the cave walls. If we wanted a cluster of trees on the large tiles, then we could use the smaller tiles for that.

Anyway, they still look nice. I just wish they were more useful so I could have bought extra sets!

 

[avin]

How would you guys like a grassland poster map with some wilderness tiles like trees, bushes, streams, ponds, etc?

This is the kind of product I expect Wotc start producing. The future dwarf camp releasing is something like that, I suppose.

 

[Cadfan]

Not to be a pest, but I'm going to ask again since it affects my buying decisions-

If your intention with DU5 is to get a bunch of dressing tiles to use alongside a relatively generic wilderness poster map, will it work well? If that's the context in which you're using the set, do these criticisms still apply?

 

[The Little Raven]

If your intention with DU5 is to get a bunch of dressing tiles to use alongside a relatively generic wilderness poster map, will it work well? If that's the context in which you're using the set, do these criticisms still apply?

I'd say yes. While each set has tiles that I feel I'd probably never use, the majority are useful. Since I have DT4 (two copies) already, DU5 is just the icing on my outdoor encounter cake.

 

[Perram]

We (and more specifically I) didn't want to retread the old ground of DT4 Ruins of the Wild for a number of reason.

I have to ask... why? I'm lucky enough that I have at least one copy of every set and 2-3 of most.

But... Runes of the Wild was a long time ago, its out of print, and to find a copy now will run you $60+ on ebay. It even uses the old D&D logo on its packaging.

Why limit the benefit that this set would have to not retread ground that a much desired out of print and ridiculously hard to get set has?

I know that you are going to address some of these concerns with the new base set, but this is a major problem with Dungeon Tiles (their availability) and if you are limiting your design decisions because you think your customers have a product that is difficult to get a hold of... I think you are making a mistake.

 

[MerricB]

You know, when I designed this set, I knew that this would be a complaint.

What I didn’t imagine is that MerricB (a fan whose opinion I respect) would be very disappointed buy it.

Sorry about that, SRM!

We (and more specifically I) didn't want to retread the old ground of DT4 Ruins of the Wild for a number of reason. I wanted a set that would present new terrain types (forest, forest clearings, and wilderness ruins) and create interesting transitional pieces between the wilds and the "dungeon" that would enhance DT4 and other sets. That was the method to my particular madness. Also, we wanted at least one tile (with two sides) that supported some of the immurements in AV2 (see immurement of baleful gossamer page 89 and immurement of the strident statuary page 91).

What did that poor tree ever do to you!

I have a philosophy (that you may not agree with) that transitional pieces are more interesting and useful than large plain area pieces, especially in outdoor tile sets. It is easier to hand wave large regions of a singular type of terrain (or to own a flip map or similar product with that terrain already printed on it) than it is to do so with transition. DM time and brainpower is taken up is in the transitions of areas and terrain (“this is where the woods end”, “there is a fallen tree here and it is difficult terrain and provides cover”, “the stonework of the ruins starts here” “there is a clearing in the woods here”, etc. and then asking the pesky questions of which square is which when hand drawn lines aren’t quite clear). It’s this philosophy that guided my design decisions for DU5 Sinister Woods.

It's an interesting philosophy. Thanks for explaining it. To a large extent I agree - and there are some beautiful tiles in the set. (Both artistically and from a design point of view).

I also made sure to put forest and clearing tiles on one side and ruins tiles on another side, so to limit some hard choices and guess work when using the set. I’ll freely admit that you may have to buy least two sets if you want flexibility with each type of terrain. Given the price point, the relative ease of storage, I don’t think this is entirely unreasonable. Honestly, I really don’t mind if you buy more.

I almost always buy two sets. Have of this one as well.

Hope this helps in understanding why I made the choice I did on this set. I’m sorry if any of you are disappointed by it…that was not my intent.

I'm sorry too - because, though I'm "very disappointed" with the set, it is honestly just because of the lack of a couple of "extendable" tiles. I love that I can make a large forest clearing with 2 copies of this set. Some of the dressing tiles are very nice indeed...

...but, what have you got against trees? Poor things. I bet your wizards can't pass them without doing horrible things to them with spells.

The tile that would have been perfect as an "extendable" piece - to distinguish it from the extendable tiles in DT5 - would have been a rocky field. Not rocks everywhere, but just enough to give some difficult terrain and a bit of cover.

As we get the wilderness sets so rarely, I think they (unfortunately) have a greater need to have generic pieces.

Cheers!

 

[Adso]

I have to ask... why?

I know that you are going to address some of these concerns with the new base set, but this is a major problem with Dungeon Tiles (their availability) and if you are limiting your design decisions because you think your customers have a product that is difficult to get a hold of... I think you are making a mistake.

I actually didn't limit my design decisions based on this, I was freed to make the design decisions for a set that I really wanted (and I believed other people wanted ), not redesign a set that I already had and knew that we might see again in relatively short order.

Hope that helps.

 

[MerricB]

I actually didn't limit my design decisions based on this, I was freed to make the design decisions for a set that I really wanted (and I believed other people wanted ), not redesign a set that I already had and knew that we might see again in relatively short order.

Hope that helps.

Oooh... that does. Thanks!

Cheers!

 

[DaveMage]

quoting for the irony.

Quiet, you! :shake fist:


As for the set, yeah, it's a bit disappointing. I like about 1/3 of the tiles.