Very first thoughts after reading 4e PHB

[Mengu]

+2 ac and reflex seems to be better than the slight damage increase found in larger weapons, which tends to be approximately 1 or 1.5 per [W] in an attack.

It's actually a bit more than that, considering numerous 2[W] and 3[W] powers, Critical hits, Reaping Strike, feats like Power Attack, and Potent Challenge.

I think party role as defender is the better argument for playing a sword and board fighter.

 

[Regicide]

Wow. It's very different. In fact, I think it's sufficiently different that those converting from 3e will have more difficulty than those approaching it anew.

I made a list of the differences so I could reference them as I play. Things that commonly come up in play which we wouldn't normally look up anyway was less than a page.

3E and 4E are almost identical mechanically for both character creation and combat, with 4E having some extra stuff tossed on top such as healing surges.

 

[Cadfan]

It's actually a bit more than that, considering numerous 2[W] and 3[W] powers, Critical hits, Reaping Strike, feats like Power Attack, and Potent Challenge.

I think party role as defender is the better argument for playing a sword and board fighter.

Right, its per [W]. Which means that two handed weapons pick up a bit in higher levels, when you have more than one attack per encounter that deals multiple [W]s.

Still, +2 ac and reflex is really, really nice.

 

[Victim]

A character with a shield could still use magic bracers, IIRC. It's not that magic shield is adding to AC or anything.

 

[Cadfan]

Not to forget...
Character with Bastardsword and shield:
[W]=d10
+2 ac
+2 ref
Benefits from magic weapon
Benefits from magic shield

Well, right... I didn't want to go into that because, in my opinion, the bastard sword is broken.

 

[SweeneyTodd]

As far as bracers go, well, with magic items tuned down in power quite a bit (more likely to have encounter powers rather than a flat bonus, like the Gauntlets of Ogre Power), I don't think it's much of a loss to give them up to use a magical shield.

But the "meat" of a sword-and-board fighter now is Tide of Iron and related powers that allow shield users to push enemies around the battlefield. You actually play with different tactics than a 2h fighter, that's the exciting part.

 

[VanRichten]

I read through the 4E PHB and DMG. My truest opinion is this is not D&D. I have been playing the game for over 20 years and never did I think it would turn into what it is in 4E.

It feels like they took all the ideas they had for classes. Poored them into a big pot. Stirred it up and then filled up several bowls. Each bowl being each class, but everyone got the same amount. The flavor for each class really feels the same, mechanically they are the same. Where is the spice that seperates each? Might as well call them all pablum.

I can only hope that more will come to fix these problems. Because right now this system feels rushed.

As for the DMG it provides little to a DM that he does not already know. Most of it could have been put into the players handbook alone.

Ultimately I don't feel this system was the best choice that WoTC could have done, in fact I would rank it up with the 5th Age Dragonlance System.

But if you like it then more power to you. I think it is good for a starting RPG to get people into the game who either have never played one before or wouldn't because they love mmo's too much. Then moving on to something better.

However for those of us out there who don't like it we will go with Pathfinder.

 

[Branduil]

I read through the 4E PHB and DMG. My truest opinion is this is not D&D. I have been playing the game for over 20 years and never did I think it would turn into what it is in 4E.

It feels like they took all the ideas they had for classes. Poored them into a big pot. Stirred it up and then filled up several bowls. Each bowl being each class, but everyone got the same amount. The flavor for each class really feels the same, mechanically they are the same. Where is the spice that seperates each? Might as well call them all pablum.

I can only hope that more will come to fix these problems. Because right now this system feels rushed.

As for the DMG it provides little to a DM that he does not already know. Most of it could have been put into the players handbook alone.

Ultimately I don't feel this system was the best choice that WoTC could have done, in fact I would rank it up with the 5th Age Dragonlance System.

But if you like it then more power to you. I think it is good for a starting RPG to get people into the game who either have never played one before or wouldn't because they love mmo's too much. Then moving on to something better.

However for those of us out there who don't like it we will go with Pathfinder.

Out of curiousity, have you played it?

 

[Blacksmithking]

I read through the 4E PHB and DMG. My truest opinion is this is not D&D.

It feels more like D&D to me than previous versions of D&D. Now I have a party that actually has to work together to overcome challenges, instead of uber-wizard archmages, CoDzillas, and fighters that are basically summons that I have to heal.

The flavor for each class really feels the same, mechanically they are the same. Where is the spice that seperates each?

My warlock plays quite differently from my cleric, fighter, and wizard; however, the mechanical differences between classes have been narrowed to make the game less swingy and easier to balance. If one character has 40 hp and another has 80, they're not in the same league. If one has +20 THAC0 and another +10, one character will always hit and one will always miss. That's a lesson learned from the Epic 3.0e rules.

1st level characters all tend to look the same at the moment, but that's because we haven't seen any splats yet. Roll up a few 3.0e fighters without hitting any splats and you'll see they all pretty much look the same as well.

 

[bardolph]

Well, right... I didn't want to go into that because, in my opinion, the bastard sword is broken.

Not really. You're paying a feat to bump your damage die by d2 (over the longsword) or to get +1 damage (over the greatsword). Strictly by the numbers, Bastard Sword Proficiency is worth about the same as Weapon Focus.