Very first thoughts after reading 4e PHB

[Gothmog]

So instead you prefer a system that gives that same requirement to the base needs of the class? I gather that is what you are saying because that is what 4E did. It gave all those nifty abilities from magic items and made them class abilities.

I can see how you think that from a read-through, but in play, its not like magic-item abilities. Several characters in our group of 4th level PCs have magic items, and the magic items do more "fantastical" types of things that PC abilities don't replicate. The class powers put all the characters on more even footing and make playing a non-caster viable and fun now.

Unfortunately I would find this to be an incorrect statement. Try running the game past 10th level and have no magic items for your PCs. I am sure you will find this will be more difficult than you expect, and most likely will find the magic items to be a necessity.

Magic items are still important to PCs, but not VITAL like they were in 3.5. In the game I'm running, I'm giving out about half the magic items listed in the core books, and having no troubles so far. Time and levels will tell if this makes a difference, but I can distinctly remember in 3.5 that if a 4th-5th level party didn't have items and buffs, they were already at a disadvantage to their opponents. A character really should be much more than a collection of his gear, and the character should fear death more than loss of his items. In 3.5, if you lost your items, you were better off just starting another character.

Doesn't this now make you sound like you are shoe horned into doing a specific job? What about the fighter who doesn't want to stand there and tank? Or the Warlock who wants to be right in the action and DPS? Do all rogues have to be sneaky? Note I am not anti-4E. I am only stating it isn't D&D.

They don't have to- there is a LOT of variance in character powers, feats, and multiclassing. Heck, you can even play two characters of the same class completely differently without multiclassing at all. For example, the game I'm a player in I have a human paladin, and the other paladin is a dragonborn. My paladin worships the Raven Queen, and the Dragonborn worships Ioun. My paladin is more focused on weakening/smiting the undead and his enemies, and is heavily armored. The dragonborn is more lightly armored, and acts more in defense, with some knowledge skills. They play and mechanically work COMPLETELY differently.

Your analogy leads me to believe you have had a bad DM or just bad roleplaying experiences. The idea of teamwork is not defined by your rules but by the people who make your team. If for you the system was the problem then my suggestion would be to find another group.

Actually, I find his analogy of 3.x NBA players and 4e college basketball 100% accurate- its been my experience as well (and for a lot of other people I know). 3.x PCs are a lot more versatile, and tend to be more lone wolves because of their much higher power level and low reliance on others. And in playing 3.x with probably over 100 people, I've yet to see any group use tactics as well as the 4e groups I've played with so far. Any weaknesses a 3.x character has can be multiclassed away, or a feat taken to remove the weakness, or a magic item bought to cover their butt. 4e characters are individually tough, but they all still have weaknesses, and must act together as a team or face death.

Another way to see it was that 3e tried to make it so every character had his moment in the spotlight. Problem with that is that once some people get their moment in the spotlight, they don't want to give it up. So we saw a preponderance of multiclassing, buffs, magic item escalation, etc as party members tried to outdo each other. I've seen guys who were incredible roleplayers in 1e/2e and other systems get caught up in this (basically, glory hogs wanting the spotlight all for themselves) and become munchkin powergamer twinks. Heck, you almost had to if one person started it, or else you looked like a chump. From my experience so far, 4e is more about allowing the party as a collective to shine and have the spotlight- no single member is so powerful that they can overshadow or dominate the party, but they are all keys players. That is MUCH better game design, and one of the big strengths of 4e.