Vexing Psionics Handbook Question

[green slime]

I'd rather a defense lasts for an entire round, unless you want to erect a different one in response to a different attack.

I did all sorts of things for psionic combat:

Increased the difficulty to save across the board, and increased the stat Damage they cause, to be more in line with powers/spells of a similar level. Just to make the power point expenditure worthwhile.

I haven't had time to read Mindscapes yet. I got started, it seemed intriguing.

 

[The Blue Elf]

Its ok its just I'm was a Psion and I never had a Str of 20 in my life, 16 and 18 are ok unless you roll them by pure luck and had used a Haft-Orc add a Str bonus of 2 to make it 20 thats fine.But, I never heard of a wizard that had a str of 20 or a Psion unless they used it to ablity increass for every 4 levels.

 

[green slime]

Blue elf.

You really need to work on your grammar so people can unequivocally understand what you are trying to say.

None of your posts have been very easy to read, nor comprehend what it is you are trying to say.

A psion Egoist will, as far as the player is allowed, have a VERY high Strength score. Egoist's main manifesting stat is their Strength score. The maximum level of powers which they can manifest their psychometabilism powers is determined by their Strength score. All their bonus power points comes from having a high Strength score. Certain optional rules, allow Egoists to use their Strength to determine the DC's for one or two non-psychometabolism disciplines, aAND to determine what level powers are available from those disciplines.

Now why would you be surprised that a Player, choosing to play an Egoist, and using a point buy system, would have Strength 20 at 4th level??

17 starting Strength (13 points using LGC point buy method) +2 Racial bonus (half-orc) +1 Level bonus is nothing to be surprised about.

 

[Seule]

I am involved in two campaigns with Psionics. In one, I play a Shaper/Constructor (8th level), and am basically the only Psionic entity in the campaign. The DM puts in psionic treasure occasionally, but that's about it. The other, which I run, has a background in which the PC races long ago abandoned arcane magic in favor of Psionics, and thus Wizards and Sorcerers are not available to PCs. The PCs are 8th level, with a Psion Savant/Crystal Master and a Psychic Warrior. In both, Psionic Combat has been removed from the campaign, because it's useless, pointless, and stupid (my opinion). I've recently aquired Mindscapes by Bruce Cordell and incorporated the combat modes as powers into my game, but nobody has taken one yet, and I doubt they will. I have not used the Mindscapes combat, as Psionic Combat just seems like an extra add-on to psionics that's unnecessary. Psionic characters are already unique enough, without adding an entire extra rules-set for psion-to-psion combat. Powers like Brain Lock and Cocoon are far more effective. And they force all Psions, of all types, to fight the same way in psionic combat. I hate it, and don't use it at all.
And yes, Psions are less powerful than other characters, unless you find one of the very few wildly broken combos. Most of those involve Trigger Power or feeder weapons, so they are easy to fix.
My suggested solution: Similarly to Bruce Cordell, scrap Psionic Combat completely, and let Psions (not Psychic Warriors) pick one Psionic, Metapsionic or Item Creation feat at levels 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20.

--Seule

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

A psion must spread his stats out. When I play a psion, assuming the DM doesn't fix MAD, I always put a 15 in my primary stat. Nothing higher, even if I'm using a race that gets a stat boost. (Besides, going over 14 costs lost of stat points, before racial mods of course.) Any other stat ponts get spread around.

 

[Seule]

Wow, a double post an hour apart. Neat.

--Seule

 

[Otakkun]

A psion Egoist will, as far as the player is allowed, have a VERY high Strength score. Egoist's main manifesting stat is their Strength score. The maximum level of powers which they can manifest their psychometabilism powers is determined by their Strength score. All their bonus power points comes from having a high Strength score.

How can you afford to have a huge score in STR and still ahve access to another discipline? Psions usually have their stats distributed in such way that you get 12+ in at least 4 attributes (so that you get usefull powers at most levels).

Edo.

 

[green slime]

How can you afford to have a huge score in STR and still ahve access to another discipline? Psions usually have their stats distributed in such way that you get 12+ in at least 4 attributes (so that you get usefull powers at most levels).

Edo.

Point buy, 32 points (not uncommon)

Str 17 (13 points)
Dex 14 (6 points)
Con 14 (6 points)
Int 10 (2 points)
Wis 13 (5 points
Cha 8 (0 points)

Total point expenditure: 32!

Now considering that some play with more points, some play with less, and some use Dice rolls that are likely to produce even greater scores, I see no problem with this.

Is a perfectly valid character. Whether or not you would spread your points about in this fashion is irrelevant. Whether or not you would use 32 points or more or less or roll dice, or a completely different method for character generation is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that it is possible, in many people's games, to create such a character.

I explained: There are "variant" rules, introduced I believe in ITCK, whereby psions are allowed to pick a secondary discipline that runs off the same stat as their primary discipline. So as the player for the above character you could choose Telepathy as your secondary discipline, and, as an Egoist, you use your Strength score to determine your Telepathy DC's and highest manifestable Telepathy power. Now not everyone is using those rules, (personally I do not) but they are fairly common, if the threads one reads around here are anything to go by.

All a psion really needs is:
Str 12 (access to Animal affinity means he can then count on +2 minimum to any stat), which further allows access to Pyschofeedback.

Con 14 for Negate Psionics, and Inertial Barrier and reliable access to Disintegrate (see above), if you like inflicting that kind of damage.

Dex 14 for Dimension Door, access to Improved Fly, and these are just "nice, cool abilities" that I personally like to have available, but they aren't everyone's cup of tea. So while nice, isn't absolutely necessary, like Con and Str.

Wis 13 allows access to True Seeing and some amazing psionic feats, but depending on how you plan your purchases, and your companions, you may be able to get away without this one. Although personally I'm loath to leave this power by the wayside, nothing else is really "required" in this discipline, so, in a pinch it gets the kick.

The Metacreative discipline may be safely dropped: In order to be effective, you need access to a whole lot of mind's eye feats. Thus you either concentrate on this discipline, or not at all, IMHO.

Cha 13 allows schism which almost all players should try to get. Personally I'd take Cha 13 over Wis 13 just to get schism.

As a psion lives and dies by his power points, anything, anything, which means a lower number of power points must be really, really analysed to exactly how beneficial it is, and whether or not one can actually get by without. Having a lower Primary stat will mean you will start to suffer in the power point department at mid levels.

Given obsession with raising the primary manifesting stat, and a +2 primary stat increasing item:

At ninth level, given identical equipment a psion with 15 starting primary stat (19 in stat) will have 50 power points.

The same psion, given 17 in starting primary stat (21 in stat) will have 61 power points, but, using point buy character creation will know the same number of powers, they'll just be different powers. Instead, using metapsionic feats, he can manifest more powers, lasting longer, can afford to use schism longer/more often.

Now given a 19 starting stat (17 + halforc) (23 in stat) we have 63 power points. Probably not worth the effort (yet!)

But these descrepancies grow as the character's increase in level. What you give up at creation can never be regained.

So when creating your psion, you have to ask what kind of campaign is getting run. Does your DM like to take you up to the heights of powerdom (20th level+)? Or does he run lots of low level games in succession? Is death easily worked around, or is it a permanent grave that awaits the unfortunate?

For me, a 20%+ increase in capability is wellworth the low level hit of not quite being able to manifest certain powers. YMMV.

 

[green slime]

Just thought I'd point out that 11 power points discrepancy at 9th level between the charlie with 15 in starting stat and the Professional psion with 17 is the equivalent of 5 animal affinities on the other stats, every day, and one single first level power.

Thus the Pro may choose powers he can't access to normally, but count on his animal affinity power and multitude of power points to pull him through. (He is unable to manifest them until he raises his stat to the prerequisite level)

 

[The Blue Elf]

Blue elf.

You really need to work on your grammar so people can unequivocally understand what you are trying to say.

None of your posts have been very easy to read, nor comprehend what it is you are trying to say.

A psion Egoist will, as far as the player is allowed, have a VERY high Strength score. Egoist's main manifesting stat is their Strength score. The maximum level of powers which they can manifest their psychometabilism powers is determined by their Strength score. All their bonus power points comes from having a high Strength score. Certain optional rules, allow Egoists to use their Strength to determine the DC's for one or two non-psychometabolism disciplines, aAND to determine what level powers are available from those disciplines.

Now why would you be surprised that a Player, choosing to play an Egoist, and using a point buy system, would have Strength 20 at 4th level??

17 starting Strength (13 points using LGC point buy method) +2 Racial bonus (half-orc) +1 Level bonus is nothing to be surprised about.

I am surprised you actually care about me to say it. However, it is my problem green slime not yours to determine, I'm not always right on the dot with Grammar. Too anwser that question you ask, because I have Difficult time to figure out how can someone can have a Strength bonus of 20 at 4th level , I know that Egoist is the base score discipline is Strength, and you can increase your ability score every 4 levels, and I never got that when I played Psions before.