vicious wound (feat) wounding weapon, and "Make them Bleed"

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: vicious wound (feat) wounding weapon, and "Make them Bleed"

Arterial Strike and MTB should both qualify, though...

Couldn't agree more. Come to think of it, I need to build a new character.

...and once you have the feat, it should affect wounds caused by a Wounding weapon...

I'd still say no. A wounding weapon is not a "special wounding attack". It is merely a magic weapon. If you have AS or MTB, and you elect not the use them, then you are not using a "special wounding attack". You're just swinging a magical weapon.

 

[drnuncheon]

Re: shuriken, wounding, etc.

so, if a rogue has arterial strike, vicious wound, and three shuriken of wounding - what happens?
the shuriken each cause one wound, yes?

Correct. If you hit with 3 wounding shuriken, then the person will bleed for 3 points of damage per round.

does arterial strike add one more wound that bleeds for two (because of vicious wound)? or add one damage to each of the three wounds? i would say one new wound, based off the 'only one sneak attack per shuriken throw' rule.

Right. Only one sneak attack, so only one wound bleeding from a 'wounding special ability'.

so if it works that way, there are four wounds from the attack. does vicious wound makes each bleed for two? or only the one from arterial strike? the wording for vicious wound is unclear on this. it says the 'wounds' you cause from each attack bleed more, but i cant tell if that applies to causing multiple wounds from one attack or is just the way the feat is worded.

Any wound that has arterial strike used on it will bleed for 1 extra. So with your shuriken, you would get:

3 hp damage (3 hits)
+X-1d6 Sneak attack) (X being your normal dice, -1 for Arterial)
1 wound that bleeds for 3 points/rd (vicious + wounding + arterial)
2 wounds that bleed for 1 point/rd

That is assuming that wounding as a weapon quality does not qualify for Vicious Strike. However, I'm not sure that's the case. It seems to be the tradition in 3e for equipment to be allowed to qualify you for the prerequisites and the use of feats: for example, stat boosters. I personally don't like it, but that's House Rules - in the RAW, it doesn't matter where the bonuses come from as long as they're present on a more-or-less permanent basis.

Based on that interpretation, then, your shuriken would bleed for 2 hp/rd each, and 3hp/rd for the one with arterial strike: 7 hp/rd total.

I don't recall the specifics of Make them Bleed, and I'm without my books at the moment, so I can't speak to the inclusion of that feat.

EDIT: Oh yeah:

it says the 'wounds' you cause from each attack bleed more, but i cant tell if that applies to causing multiple wounds from one attack or is just the way the feat is worded.

The reason 'wounds' is in there is because you can hit him more than once on separate attacks, and both wounds will bleed - it's not "I hit him once, and he'll never bleed at more than 1 hp/round".

J

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Re: Re: vicious wound (feat) wounding weapon, and "Make them Bleed"

I'd still say no. A wounding weapon is not a "special wounding attack". It is merely a magic weapon. If you have AS or MTB, and you elect not the use them, then you are not using a "special wounding attack". You're just swinging a magical weapon.

Ah, but you only need the "special wounding attack" to qualify for the feat. And I agree that the sword won't let you qualify.

But the feat doesn't deal extra damage on a "special wounding attack". It deals damage on "an attack with the wounding special ability".

And Wounding is found in the DMG under "Magic Weapon Special Ability Descriptions".

-Hyp.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: vicious wound (feat) wounding weapon, and "Make them Bleed"

Ah, but you only need the "special wounding attack" to qualify for the feat. And I agree that the sword won't let you qualify.

But the feat doesn't deal extra damage on a "special wounding attack". It deals damage on "an attack with the wounding special ability".

And Wounding is found in the DMG under "Magic Weapon Special Ability Descriptions".

Your argument has some merit, but you're giving it a single direction slant. It goes both ways. If you agree that a wounding weapon won't qualify because it isn't a "special wounding attack", then an attack with a wounding weapon is not "an attack with the wounding special ability" because the wounding weapon is not a "special wounding attack". If it was, it would let you qualify for the feat.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: vicious wound (feat) wounding weapon, and "Make them Bleed"

If you agree that a wounding weapon won't qualify because it isn't a "special wounding attack", then an attack with a wounding weapon is not "an attack with the wounding special ability" because the wounding weapon is not a "special wounding attack".

I don't agree that the terms are interchangeable.

A special wounding attack as a prerequisite is an inherent quality of the character.

If someone had a sword that allowed one to Cleave when dropping an opponent, I wouldn't let them qualify for Great Cleave. But if they had a feat that let them automatically threaten a critical on a Cleave attack, and they used the sword to Cleave someone, I'd let the feat trigger.

-Hyp.

 

[00durrin]

i agree with Hypersmurf to an extent...

once you have the feat, the prerequisites are inconsequential to the determination of the feat's use (unless of course you later lose the prereq's)

the only pertinent information then becomes what is in the feat's description...

"when using an attack that has a wounding special ability, the wounds you cause bleed for an additional +1 each round."

so therefore the conflict results only from how "wounding special ability" is interpreted.

if a weapon of wounding has (or bestows) a wounding special ability then it qualifies for the extra damage all the time (regardless of whether or not you are using your wounding special attack, which was the prereq, not in the description...think rogue and arterial strike)

basically this would come into play most often with a rogue who had arterial strike, vicious wound and a weapon of wounding (gladiators are generally unaffected because they use make them bleed all the time as opposed to on a successful sneak attack). since a rogue can only use arterial strike when he is sneak attacking it is important to know whether or not his weapon of wounding allows him to use the feat with every OTHER hit (i.e., those that are not sneak attacks altered to do arterial strikes).

if the weapon of wounding has (or bestows) a wounding special ability, regardless of whether or not the rogue is using his wounding special attack the wound caused by the weapon of wounding would bleed for +1 pts.

if the weapon of wounding does not have or bestow the wounding special ability, then the wound will not bleed for the +1 unless the rogue is using his arterial strike

the important thing is to remember that it is the special attack that qualifies you for the feat and the special ability that determines the +1

so the question remains...does a weapon of wounding have (or bestow) a wounding special ability?