Video game achievements in real life

In my new blog, I discuss turning video game 'achievements' into part of everyday life. If folks like this, I may expand on the idea. Places I Haven't Been Yet

(Also, please tell me if the background image is causing trouble. If it makes things lag, I'll go to a plain background. Thanks.)
 

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It already exists in some things in real life. You play a video game and wiggle your fingers 65,000 times. You get a high score. I knit and wiggle my fingers 65,000 times and get a lace shawl or a pair of socks.
 

Counterpoint: You claim that "Achievements" would motivate people; it would encourage them to do something "adventurous" and "move out of [their] comfort zone". However, I posit that using a standard list of life achievements actually discourages adventure, because it only encourages people to do (and re-do, ad nauseum) the same things as everyone else. Furthermore, once a person has started getting rewards for doing something, they are more likely to try and repeat a similar act for a similar reward, rather than find a new one. In this way, Achievements can actually become the comfort zone that people live in. Also, giving people rewards for meaningless milestones can create a false sense of entitlement.

"Achievements" in real life are their own rewards. If you cannot feel that reward without getting a $5 off coupon, you have either chosen the wrong accomplishment, or never really accomplished anything.

Personally, I started making a list of my own, personal achievements in life a short while ago. It's kind of a reverse bucket list; rather than think about everything I want to experience, I list all the amazing things I have experienced. I found it extremely uplifting and empowering to realize how much I have done with my life so far. But this sense of accomplishment can only come from within. No company can assign a value the time I grew a handlebar mustache, nor should I expect a reward for the time I returned a lost wallet without taking any cash from it. I can, however, review these times and know that I live a better life because of them.
 

Someone linked this to me: Is Your Life Just One Big RPG? -- Mind-Blowing Speech From DICE 2010 - G4tv.com

(I would prefer a less cynical version than what this video presents. His idea are heavily skewed toward ways for advertising agencies and such to make you do what they want. I want to put a more noble hand on the rudder, to encourage folks to make good decisions for society, not just corporations.)

Desert Gled, that's a good point about people repeating all the same stuff, but can be easily dealt with. Some achievements that we want to encourage everyone to do (healthy weight, doing your homework) are equally valuable to everyone, but ones that are more personal (build a boat, write a volume of sonnets, I dunno) have their values slowly reduced the more people do them. So folks will be encouraged to get the greater rewards by doing less common things.

I agree that accomplishing your own goals is more gratifying than just doing what someone tells you. But my point is that it's possible to use dinky rewards to slowly move people toward certain behaviors. Yeah, what you pursue is your decision, but we're making it so that you're more rewarded for choosing something productive, instead of Farmville.
 
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Someone linked this to me: Is Your Life Just One Big RPG? -- Mind-Blowing Speech From DICE 2010 - G4tv.com

(I would prefer a less cynical version than what this video presents. His idea are heavily skewed toward ways for advertising agencies and such to make you do what they want. I want to put a more noble hand on the rudder, to encourage folks to make good decisions for society, not just corporations.)

That was me that linked it. I agree that the advertising angle seems cynical, but I'd argue that it's really the same thing as yesteryear's S&H Green Stamps and today's frequent flyer miles, just easier to track and more fun. Though both of those do encourage you to make certain purchases, neither really feels like a negative thing, at least to me.
 

The difference between real life and a computer game like WoW is that in the game, rewards are very close to instant or take a short time to gain.

We all know that if we work out 30 minutes a day and watch our intake of sugar and saturated fat we'll have a very fit body over six months time.

In an age of instant gratification that's quite a ways away.

What works for me is making a list of the things I want to be able to do or know. Then breaking them up in learnable skills. When you master those individual things they are like little achievements that you can check off. It may sound a bit lame and almost like fooling yourself but it works

Also, what makes WoW so successful is that next to the rewards you know you're gonna get after time invested there are also a lot of rewards (more powerful ones in game) that are randomly gained. The same principle as a slot machine.

That last bit seems unrelated and maybe it is. Maybe you can make real life achievements addictive to help you out.
 

I think everyone has made some good points so far. Points which are valid, though not necessarily mutually exclusive or contradictory.

Last year a few of my friends and I tried to start up the Terminus City Writers Club, where we would read and critique each others' work. That fell apart quickly because while we liked each other as people, we didn't share each others' taste in fiction. We had a poet who didn't write prose at all, an author with a quirky steampunk novel, another author with a grim fantasy novel, a guy who had some brilliant ideas for his Harry Potter fan fiction, and me, trying to get feedback so I could get a romantic urban fantasy novel published.

We had very little overlap when it came to personal pleasure reading lists, and we were all writing for different reasons. Unsurprisingly, we got along better as friends than as critique partners.


I think the above extract though gives some clues as to how such a system may operate.

I have my own theories on these matters, but one thing I'd like to note: there are very different levels and types of achievements, ranging from the entirely personal to the meta (I'm gonna leave that last term very loose in connotative meaning and construct). Because of that the types and natures of rewards vary greatly, as well, and vary as to their level of reinforcement. (For instance, with me, money alone is not a reward, as I've sunk money into ventures simply because of the experience, and don't mind losing money if the venture is profitable in other ways - however money, by that I mean securing a good profit, combined with some other objective important to me is a very satisfying reward. I won't do some things for money and profit, if profit is all I secure. However I will do other things for profit, and be glad of it, if the profit accompanies some other objective important to me. Different individuals however will consider or rank the value of actual rewards received dependent upon what they personally value. Any good rewards system must have a underlying economic system that validates the actual risk, and pays what the participant actually values.)

I think though that the observations above, about personal interest and the level of success or failure of any experimental venture, will to a large extent determine how, for what reasons, and exactly what rewards are derived from any such experiment or enterprise. The larger the enterprise the more likely it is to devolve into smaller splinter groups or sub-groups of specialization. (And, possibly, into specialized economic-gain systems. By that I do not necessarily mean money, though money could be a part of the overall economic gain system, but I mean a pay-off appropriate to the general risk and reward process of the enterprise.)

That's not necessarily a bad thing. It just happens to be a trend in the way groups of people operate when engaged in any collective activity. And, sort of aversely, the way individuals act/react when they seek others out to engage in activities that interest them on a personal level.

It is a very interesting idea however, and one I've had myself for a long time, though in a somewhat parallel fashion compared to your ideas.

I've got nothing against any set of true achievements being rewarded. So do not think I am being discouraging in any way. I like your idea(s) in this regard. I just have a suspicion, from my own experience, and from my psychological observations of others, that reward types, and risk to reward ratios differ greatly dependent upon the category of venture, and upon the nature of the individual embarked upon such a venture. (To one degree, the very fact that you entertain such objectives is illustrative of certain aspects of your character and nature, and may say something about what would be a valuable reward to you. In comparison say, to someone who does not share your general interests and outlook. This doe not mean a generalized system such as you envision cannot be constructed, just that the rewards system cannot be too tightly associated with the nature of the project, or those who have completely different motivations and values will be uninterested. Of course that will be true in any case. You cannot construct a system, any system, not matter how valuable and efficient, that will appeal to everyone. I suspect you already know that. I point it out to say that perhaps you should list a possible set of wide-ranging and very varied rewards, rather than trying to tightly construct a rewards-based system - like real life is some type of game, because it is not, though both games and reality share certain overlapping an related conditions and sometimes even objectives - and let the individual choose their own rewards system, and their own types of gain. You offer possible ideas and suggestions, for purposes of reference or potentiality, and let the individual maneuver to obtain what is truly of value to them. That would be my suggestion regarding the rewards system.)

For instance, with a personal Spiritual Enterprise, the reward might have absolutely nothing to do with money. Money might even be considered in some way anathema to the project. Say however, you were putting together a church funded mission to feed the homeless or rebuild a disaster area. Money is not the point of the venture, but it is a very vital necessity. With a third venture, say an Investment Project or a Business Start Up, money (as profit) is not only a necessity, it is an expectation and in one way or another the very point of the project.

I say this to point out the fact that not only do very different rewards accrue to the action and outcome of a venture, but also they serve very different function as support mechanisms and incentives to see a project through to the end, or to the actual point of real accomplishment. There is the starting motivation, the reinforcements along the way, and the final reward or gain. All must be profitable in some way to incentivize accomplishment from the point of formulation, to the completion of execution and accomplishment. But it is very hard to plot out this course for another. Usually the best thing you can do is provide the map and the navigational instruments and let each man captain his own ship and plot and pilot his own course. You go before him and take soundings and map dangers, he comes though by his own time, and by his own course, and for his own reasons, upon his own mission.

But not to be overlooked is the simple idea of what most interests the individual. Without a sufficient reward system people will drift from their objectives. But of all rewards, determination, desire, and personal interest are perhaps the most powerful motivations and rewards anyone can pursue.

Anyway, good luck and Godspeed with your project and ideas.
Nothing is ever gained except by action and experiment.
Everyman should have a frontier; to study, explore, and eventually push beyond.

So Ryan, I encourage you to continue.
 



RW, since I read this thread, and then your blog, I spent some time seriously analyzing your concept of applying gaming reward systems to real world circumstances, and combining that with my own theories regarding the Renaissance Gild, and with certain concepts in game-theory, I developed seven aspects of game behavior that I think could be applied directly to real world endeavors.

So I'm going to write a Theory Paper on the subject.

This is how I've outlined the first draft:


Tempus Parapplicus - the altered perception and application of time between real world and virtual environments

A Private Country of Public Enterprise - the creation of parallel and sub-worlds of overlapping achievement

The Gamble of Individual Identity - the development of artificial identities, and how to apply these to solve real world problems

The Protean Environment - the reshaping of hyper-environmental milieus

Telepropolis - the real world social community of virtual environments and the virtual technology of novel real world societies

The Impossible Probability - learning to accomplish the virtually impossible, and the reward systems which facilitate such activities

Renaissance Man - becoming Reborn through our virtual imprints of real world capabilities



The next to last section, the Impossible Probability, will basically address some of the aspects of the theoretical application of imaginary and non-localized reward systems to real-world human achievements of an unorthodox yet practical nature. Not exactly what you were describing, but I got the basic idea from you.

So thanks for the discussion and ideas.
Credit where credit is due.
 
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