Do you have any links to specific posts? I honestly can't remember ever seeing a case where someone wasn't using "videogamey" or the like as a complaint.
-
NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Videogame Influences!
- Thread starter Scribble
- Start date
Do you have any links to specific posts? I honestly can't remember ever seeing a case where someone wasn't using "videogamey" or the like as a complaint.
Umm...
I don't recall anyone comparing 4Ed to Pac-Man. I'm not saying it hasn't happen, but it seems quite the stretch. Perhaps they were speaking in jest?
I don't play WOW, either, so I can't speak to what parallels may may exist between it and 4Ed.
For me, the first video games that spring to mind are Mortal Kombat, Tekken and similar combat games. Now, I like playing those games, but I don't want that experience in my D&D.
I don't recall anyone comparing 4Ed to Pac-Man. I'm not saying it hasn't happen, but it seems quite the stretch. Perhaps they were speaking in jest?
I don't play WOW, either, so I can't speak to what parallels may may exist between it and 4Ed.
For me, the first video games that spring to mind are Mortal Kombat, Tekken and similar combat games. Now, I like playing those games, but I don't want that experience in my D&D.
While I agree with the statement in general is it not somewhat orthogonal to the discussion?
You see I don't play those games, so I would not know, which reinforces my original point. Unless one explains the element one finds video gamey and also explains the game where this occurs the statement has no meaning to a large number of people. Except in so far that some element reminds them of being video gamey and that it may be a good or a bad thing is reflected in the tone of the post.
I agree that MMO's are not the only videogame but this thread was kinda focusing on MMO, at least was my impression.
You see I came to D&D via wargames and almost never played without minis. Battlemat was optional, we often played on a plain table and eyeballed the distances.
Shark has been making the point that WoW has influenced D&D toward homogenisation of the classes. Personally I doubt that. In my opinion the pressure for balance (aka homogenisation) has been RPGA and in particular to take RPGA to the net via the VTT. If WoW has had an influence on that aspect of the 4e design then it was more in showing a road, the pressure was there already.
It is also influenced by long and explosive threads here in EN World about balancing classes and even picking stats where I remember some people stating that they would not play in a game where the GM would allow rolling for stats because of the imbalances that, that creates.
In my opinion the influence WoW brought was to crystalise in the minds of the designers the effect of well structured roles. Now, here I am going on hearsay. I don't play WoW but from what I have heard that is one of its strong points.
I'll leave you to it, and best of luck. I like pushing bits of plastic around a table. Now all I want is self assembling terrain
. Spread a powder on the table and just add water. Whatever happeded to nano technology 
I love your assumption that saying 4E is videogamey is a negative TB. It reminds me of all the people who used to pull thier hair out screaming and gnashing thier teeth when I called the 3.x paladin's mount a pokemount.
The facts are these:
I played wow extensively until the release of TBC. My guild was raiding Naxx and killing the fourhorsemen when most were cutting thier teeth on the prophet in AQ. I like video games and have been playing them since atari asteroids was the best thing to happen to the home console.
I like DnD and I play 4E every week and have fun kicking butt with my swordmage. There are aspects of 4E that I don't like and there are aspects of 4E that seem videogamey to me, they are not one and the same.
Honestly my biggest beef with 4E are some of its fans who patrol these boards looking for blasphemy (real or imagined) against thier favorite game like the spanish inquisition. Its a big turn off. Your game has flaws and you know what, thats ok so did all the previous incarnations of the game.
The facts are these:
I played wow extensively until the release of TBC. My guild was raiding Naxx and killing the fourhorsemen when most were cutting thier teeth on the prophet in AQ. I like video games and have been playing them since atari asteroids was the best thing to happen to the home console.
I like DnD and I play 4E every week and have fun kicking butt with my swordmage. There are aspects of 4E that I don't like and there are aspects of 4E that seem videogamey to me, they are not one and the same.
Honestly my biggest beef with 4E are some of its fans who patrol these boards looking for blasphemy (real or imagined) against thier favorite game like the spanish inquisition. Its a big turn off. Your game has flaws and you know what, thats ok so did all the previous incarnations of the game.
Hmm! for some odd reason the reply tool or even new reply insists that I quote Kamikaze Midget.
However, Shadeydm, not sure to whom your are refereing but since your post is after mine I believe I clearly stated that the video gamey referecence could positive or negative. My allegation is that without further elucidation the statement is somewhat unclear.
However, Shadeydm, not sure to whom your are refereing but since your post is after mine I believe I clearly stated that the video gamey referecence could positive or negative. My allegation is that without further elucidation the statement is somewhat unclear.
Sorry TB was supposed to mean Twin Bahamut.
Fifth Element
Legend
It can certainly be a neutral, or even a positive comment. But I submit that the use of the terms on these boards since the release of 4E has been heavily skewed towards the negative connotation.
Amusingly enough, the game I was talking about there was Morrowind. It apparently pissed off enough people that they fixed it for Oblivion, yes.
That's ok, I did not catch what the TB meant. I'm a bit slow to day.
Ydars
Explorer
The problem with defining a "feel" as in "videogame feel", is that the person actually experiencing that feeling is not always aware of what particular set of stimuli has triggered that reaction. So defining it becomes a game of cat and mouse with your own unconscious. Add in twelve people on ENworld telling you, " you're wrong and you have the ingredients for a flame-war.
Also, to those of you like TwinBahamat, who feel that the comment "too videogamey" is negative to video games, I would say this. Some computer RPG conventions are NOT appropriate for porting into PnP based RPGs. They are fine in a computer game but don't belong in some people's PnP games and here is why I think this is the case.
A computer game is essentially an audio-visual experience, it does not happen primarily in the imagination. This is why we can accept many conventions like complete healing after a short rest, daily powers, etc that bother many people about 4E. The audio-visual cues, in a CRPG, are stimulating enough that they allow us to get past any feelings of disbelief so that we are still immersed in the world/story. Essentially what we are seeing is overiding our own internal sense of the world and reinforcing the game world.
In a PnP based game, the imagination is where the action happens for many people and in this type of game any "flag of disbelief" is much more serious. The pictures and feelings are being formed from cues in the unconscious mind so it can literally ruin the atmosphere if something doesn't "feel" right. You can't start logical arguments with your unconscious and so the feeling of the game becomes all important in a PnP RPG where vermisilitude has to be a vital component of the game.
The disageements about 4E probably arise because, for many people, imagination is NOT where the D&D primarily happens for them. These kinds of people tend to be strategically or tactically involved in the game and love the combat most of all. They use battlegrids and view the whole game as about killing things and winning. Their imagination only happens in short flashes and then they are back to planning their next tactic. This style IMHO goes back to Gygax himself, as it seems to me that his games ran this way.
I like both types of games but feel that the true potential of PnP RPGs lies in the use of the imagination; after all, no computer yet has one. So when I say D&D is becoming too video-gamey I mean that elements of the 4E mechanics, ported from video games for reasons of game balance or playability, are intruding into the narrative/storytelling aspect of the game and ruining my suspension of disbelief.
Also, to those of you like TwinBahamat, who feel that the comment "too videogamey" is negative to video games, I would say this. Some computer RPG conventions are NOT appropriate for porting into PnP based RPGs. They are fine in a computer game but don't belong in some people's PnP games and here is why I think this is the case.
A computer game is essentially an audio-visual experience, it does not happen primarily in the imagination. This is why we can accept many conventions like complete healing after a short rest, daily powers, etc that bother many people about 4E. The audio-visual cues, in a CRPG, are stimulating enough that they allow us to get past any feelings of disbelief so that we are still immersed in the world/story. Essentially what we are seeing is overiding our own internal sense of the world and reinforcing the game world.
In a PnP based game, the imagination is where the action happens for many people and in this type of game any "flag of disbelief" is much more serious. The pictures and feelings are being formed from cues in the unconscious mind so it can literally ruin the atmosphere if something doesn't "feel" right. You can't start logical arguments with your unconscious and so the feeling of the game becomes all important in a PnP RPG where vermisilitude has to be a vital component of the game.
The disageements about 4E probably arise because, for many people, imagination is NOT where the D&D primarily happens for them. These kinds of people tend to be strategically or tactically involved in the game and love the combat most of all. They use battlegrids and view the whole game as about killing things and winning. Their imagination only happens in short flashes and then they are back to planning their next tactic. This style IMHO goes back to Gygax himself, as it seems to me that his games ran this way.
I like both types of games but feel that the true potential of PnP RPGs lies in the use of the imagination; after all, no computer yet has one. So when I say D&D is becoming too video-gamey I mean that elements of the 4E mechanics, ported from video games for reasons of game balance or playability, are intruding into the narrative/storytelling aspect of the game and ruining my suspension of disbelief.
Similar Threads
