Virtual Immunity from Attacks

[Marimmar]

Virtual Immunity from Attacks
(or why mages don't fear the reaper)

Imagine a small lv5 party venturing forth into an adventure.
Frank the fighter, Full Plate +1, Large Shield +1, Flaming Sword +1
Carl the cleric, masterwork Full Plate, Large Shield +1, Heavy Mace +1
Waldemar the toad loving gnome wizard, Ring of Deflection +1

Before they enter the Caves of Doom, Carl casts Bull's Strength, Toughness and Magic Vestment on himself and his equipment, he now has similar HPs and AC that Frank has and deals about the same amount of damage. Waldemar casts Toughness, Cat's Grace and Mage Armor. Together with his gnome constitution bonus and his toad he now has comparable HPs to Frank as well. His AC is still a bit behind but he's not worried about it since Frank and Carl are supposed to go ahead anyway, giving him time to cast some fancy spells later.

After some exploring the party encounters the first challenging monsters. They roll initiative with Waldemar going first since his cat's graced dexterity and the improved initiative feat allow him to almost always go first. Since he recons the monsters to be the fight of the day, he casts Haste and Shield, increasing his AC by a staggering 11 points! The fight continues with monsters and frontline PC tanks hacking and whacking at each other. The DM wisely chose some monsters that are capable of hitting an AC of 23 about a third of the time, thus allowing the fighter and cleric to have the impression that their armor and high HPs are worth something. Frank and Carl feel good in their role as tanks but the DM wants to challenge the party wizard as well and lets someone tumble past the frontline and attack Waldemar. The DM is a bit offended at the mage being hasted and casting two combat magics at his monsters per round but he is in for a rude surprise...

The monster attacks and what resulted in a hit a third of the time against the fighter and the cleric now proves almost ineffective. He's a bit unbelieving and asks Waldemar's player to tell him how his AC got so high. Waldemar's player explains, 'Base AC10, Size AC11, Dex 16 with Cat's Grace AC14, Mage Armor AC18, Shield AC25, Haste AC 29, Ring of Deflection +1 AC 30 and it all stacks with each other so your monsters will hit me only on a natural 20 and even if they hit me I got as many HPs as Frank so they won't be able to kill me anyway!' *gleeful grin*

The DM thinks to himself, 'Oh well next time i'll adjust the monsters a bit so that they can hit AC30 about a third of the time.'

The party ventures on after some retreat and rest and encounters another group of monsters. The wizard pulls of his usual spell chain and feels save once more but what is that? Sddenly the monsters hit the tanks in the front with almost every attack! Frank and Carl are overwhelmed quickly, they both feel cheated and think their AC and HPs mean nothing and start complaining. The wizard's player in the meantime manages to kill of the monsters although he took a harsh beating himself.

So what happened? The DM adjusted the monsters to hit an AC that is 7 points higher than the average AC of the party. That in turn led to the demise of both fighter and cleric. Seeing that 2 of his 3 players are unhappy he's faced with a hard decision, should he allow the wizard to remain virtually untouchable for his monsters or should he propose some rules changes?

People may point out the following things:
the Shield spell is only facing in a single direction covering only 50% of the battlefield --- This may be true but it is also invisible and there is usually a wall or corner to retreat to so it is very difficult to find the weak spot.

a Dispel Magic spell will disable the wizard and put him 'nekkid' in front of your monsters --- This may be true but it would also mean that the DM would have to include a spellcaster in every major battle and the wizard might feel useless since all his spells are always dispelled.


Our group proposes that
- the Shield spell provides a +4 Shield Armor bonus, thus removing the complicated facing problem and disallowing wizards to make use of enchanted mithril shields for extra protection
- Mage Armor should only last 10 minutes per level so that wizards cannot cast it in the morning and have it last all day
- Haste and all his bretheren be removed from all spell lists and be banned as 'broken'

I'm shure other DMs faced the same problem at low mid-level. Later on it's not that important since those particular wizard spells don't get any better but monsters do.

So I'd really like to know what you did.


~Marimmar

 

[Piratecat]

Reading your post makes me worry that you have it in for the wizard. When a PC is effective, it's usually considered bad form to change all the spells so that he is no longer effective. That's a sure way to irritate your players. Remember, it's fun for the PCs to be effective, and each buffing spell he takes is one less fireball or magic missile.

You can't let him get too cocky, though. If the wizard is wrong and this combat is followed up 15 minutes later by another combat, he's going to be in for a world of hurt.

Personally, I think shield and mage armor are fine. In my game I am considering removing the +4 AC bonus from haste, though. In addition, if I was going to start my campaign over, I'd set haste and mass haste at one level higher than they currently are.

 

[Forrester]

The mage in my campaign has been trying to talk me into allowing bucklers to stack with Mage Armor.

I don't THINK that they're supposed to . . . this little story reminder is going to make sure that I keep it that way.

Also, I made Haste a 4th level spell -- the mage isn't even taking it at 7th level, preferring to go with Slow (also a 4th level spell) and Enervation.

 

[Piratecat]

They shouldn't stack, Forrester. Good call!

 

[Blueicus]

hmm...

One house rule we implemented regarding haste and its improved version was that its casting time is officially 1 round, thus making it possible for people to disrupt the spell and disallowing the wizard to make actions during the round he casts his spell.

Regarding combats, having one combat per 'day' typically makes those people with limited but exceptional powers (wildshape, spells, etc.) much more powerful since they can use their full power all the time. However, by spreading the attacks out (perhaps the evil people send scouts after the PCs or that the orcish lair has several chambers with the BBEG deep within the complex, the wizard and all other spellcasters will need to be smart with their spells, using them selectively.

Regarding the modified shield spell, that seems like a reasonable change, but since it is a shorter duration than mage armor, the ability to stop magic missiles should still be in.

 

[Zenon]

Some thoughts:

Don't do "the one big encounter of the day". Make it many smaller ones. Don't tell them the creature type, just describe it. Give a kobold some class levels to make threats not easy to gauge.

Don't let them rest whenever they like. This makes spell expenditure something to watch for. Just for a change, don't let the wiz rest for a day.

Remind him the "death from massive damage" happens at 50 hit points and it's a fortitude save (the wiz weak one). That should take some of the wind out of his "I'm invincible!" sails.

Don't hammer the wiz all the time! He paid his dues at low level with measly d4's for hit points and a couple 1st level spells a day. Let him have his moment in the sun. His powers are only good for 1-2 encounters (without items like wands, etc). Fighters can go all day long swinging.

As for adjusting the spell levels and house ruling things, I haven't seen them abused in my campaign, so I haven't changed anything there.

 

[Zhure]

I second Dispel Magic. It's a common enemy tactic in our games after 5th level to start with a Dispel against the foe.

Also, smart enemies will harass the party as the above poster mentioned, so fights drag out. Hit, disengage, hit again. This lets short term spells get chewed up.

Greg

 

[Balsamic Dragon]

I don't think there's a real problem with the combos that you mentioned, I think there's a problem with the way the GM is running the game.

An adventuring party should not be fighting a single combat and then resting each day! That is what makes the wizard unbalanced. Suppose the fight you mentioned is the first fight of the day. The wizard has cast:

Mage Armor, Cat's Grace, Shield, Haste and Toughness. Of those, the Shield and Haste are gone shortly after the end of the fight. Since he is making use of the Haste spell to cast two offensive spells every round, we'll say he cast 6 offensive spells during the combat.

A fifth level wizard with a decent intelligence (bear with me, I don't have my PH on me) has about 5/4/2 = 11 spells, not counting cantrips. Let's assume he's specialized, so that is 6/5/3. Of these, he's cast at least 2 first levels, 2 second levels, 1 third level and 6 other offensive spells. That means for the second combat he has about 1 first level, 1 second level and 1 third level spell left. Now, he can go ahead and use his combo for the next fight, but that leaves him with only one second level spell for offensive use. He's really in trouble in the next fight where he doesn't have any spells left at all except the protection spells that last all day. That's the fight where you sic the dispel magic on him

Wizards and sorcerers can be really tough if they use their spells effectively, but they don't get them back until they rest. A good adventuring party should be facing at least 3-4 challenges (including traps and such) before they rest, and even that is no assurance that they won't be attacked during the night. Wizards have to plan carefully and spread out their spell use to make sure they are effective throughout the day.

Balsamic Dragon

 

[reddist]

Some other thoughts

Don't come at them with only physical attacks. Breath weapons, touch attacks, incorporeal creatures, spells, spell-like abilities, all circumvent some or most of the PCs armor bonuses. AC 31? Send some psionic goblins with class levels and wands of lightning bolts at him. Enemy spell casters casting spells that require Fortitude saves at wizards are particularly entertaining.

-Reddist

 

[Tyros]

I'm wondering what kinds of baddies you're throwing at your party. Every DM has this scenario where the magic-user (be it sorcerer or wizard) buffs people ahead of time with the various day-long attribute increasing spells. So did I, much in the same scenario that you're describing. It worked great against hill giants and such. And why not? That poor player that worked the mage from first level deserves to have his chance to look good and feel he's contributing to the party's success.

However, that's really not solving your problem, which I can see has a lot of abuse potential. As a DM, you need to continually challenge the players. In my example with the hill giants, they clobbered them, sure. But later that day the party encountered a couple more giants with their little ratman wizard boss. he had already prepared a couple of spells in advance, the spells being stoneskin and improved invisibility. The first thing he did as the hill giants lumbered toward the party was to prepare dispel magic and waited until the buffs started to get heaped on the party. I won't get into the details of the battle, but the party had a pyrric victory.

The main point would be to challenge the players. If they're continually buffing themselves with BS then you can bet your sweet butt the opposition should be too. Sure, the party can crush the first thing they fight, but even a band of orcs has allies, and eventually they will work their way up to a point where the opposition has spell capability. But hey, let 'em have their fun and kick some butt.

I've seen endless threads about the "fly, improved invisibility, and haste" spell combo. I've thought about house ruling the spells to be higher level, less effective (haste, cough), but that tends to confuse new players, and I've already got pages of house rules. My personal solution if you don't like a spell, is not to take it out of the game, but don't let players take it automatically when they earn a level. Make them find it through gameplay. Players tend to get pissy if you take away their good spells.

On a side note, I've never been very pleased with the stat buff spells that last all day and was thinking of shortening their duration to one hour total. It's only a second level spell after all. Anyone concur with that opinion?