Virtuoso PrC

[hong]

I rember with fondness the 1e Thief-Acrobat, and liked the 2e version, as well. The 3e T-A is pretty boring in comparison (although Fight Anywhere and Cartwheel Charge are fun abilities).

You could replace the defensive fighting, kip up, fast climb and move anywhere abilities with straight Acrobatics bonuses to Climb, Jump, Tumble and Balance skills, like in the OA blade dancer and ninja spy. I would give a +10 bonus at 5th level, and a +20 bonus at 10th level. This would also let the thief-acrobat automatically take 10 on any of these skill checks, which makes sense for someone who devotes their training to acrobatics.

 

[Magnus]

actually, my ideas for taking the acrobat grew from a mental image of using a whip like a reusable rope and grappling hook to climb and swing a la Indiana Jones, along with the idea that she'd use the defensive and acrobatic abilites more than anything else. i have this image of her dancing around a battleground, distracting enemies and assisting allies rather than being directly offensive. i see her movements in combat as being very graceful and dance-like almost like the fluid moves of Tai Chi, without actually taking monk levels.

 

[hong]

actually, my ideas for taking the acrobat grew from a mental image of using a whip like a reusable rope and grappling hook to climb and swing a la Indiana Jones, along with the idea that she'd use the defensive and acrobatic abilites more than anything else. i have this image of her dancing around a battleground, distracting enemies and assisting allies rather than being directly offensive. i see her movements in combat as being very graceful and dance-like almost like the fluid moves of Tai Chi, without actually taking monk levels.

Ah, right. If you want _flamboyant_, consider taking a psychic warrior with all the wuxia-based feats, like Up the Walls, Mental Leap, Speed of Thought, Return Shot, etc. Or if psionics isn't for you, you could try a multiclassed martial artist/shaman, aiming for the blade dancer PrC. Get a ring of jumping too. Lots of zesty flamboyant goodness there.

 

[Ma'varkith]

consider taking a psychic warrior with all the wuxia-based feats, like Up the Walls, Mental Leap, Speed of Thought, Return Shot, etc.

NOW you're talkin! For a non-psionic option, the Blade Dancer is very nice, as is the Duelist.

then again, maybe once taking the PrC, you become way too wrapped up in your own talent to take any more "Magical Advice" sorry Ma'v , i just couldn't help it!

Well, those abilities are still available for use, but you won't be able to advance the class-exclusive skills like Use Magical Device. Still, as a Bard, there are many items you will be able to use by virtue of the spells on your Bard lists - including the very handy Wand of Cure Light Wounds!

3e is about making choices. My suggestion is to write up a few character sheets for the PC with different combinations of classes and levels and see which "end result" is closest to the way you envision the character.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Hmm. For maximum Benefit, you should perhaps have a 2nd "real spellcaster" class, so you can raise this spellcasting ability with the virtuoso. Though I do not know if it is really helpful with bard. (Though he has a lower spell level progession, he is a "full" spellcaster. I am not sure about this...)

I did not really like the virtuoso, though I think his "songs" are good ideas. (Some people think that these abilities should be "standard" for high level bards...)
The virtuose wasn`t anything for my bard, but perhaps it is for yours?

Bards are fun to play. (Who cares for weakness in combat - it is all about fun in the game.)

 

[Wuxia]

Min/maxing?

A most useful combination would be:

Wizard 6
Mindbender 1
Loremaster 2
Virtuoso

Wizard 5 would be enough but 6 is good because of the increase in all saves (and, IIRC, in BAB).

Mindbender 1 is good because of the +6 bonus you can add to your Diplomacy skill, the most useful social skill, and because the telepathic power is most useful to a bard-type: you can still talk to your friends when your mouth is busy singing, or blowing into an instrument.

Loremaster 2 is good because Loremaster has Perform as a class skill, which you will need to satisfy one of the Virtuoso prerequisites. Plus, you can get a good secret and also a bit of Lore, thus mimicking the bard more closely.

Virtuoso is good because... that's what you want. ^_^ Plus, it is one spellcasting level more per Virtuoso level, so a Wizard 6
Mindbender 1 Loremaster 2 Virtuoso 1 character is not only a 10th-lvl. character but a 10th-lvl. spellcaster. As good a spellcaster as a pure wizard, but with many an ability more.

 

[Magnus]

My suggestion is to write up a few character sheets for the PC with different combinations of classes and levels and see which "end result" is closest to the way you envision the character.

thanks a lot Ma'v, i like that idea. i'd still like to hear people's opinions about the Virtuoso PrC or any other ones that might fit a storyteller/chronicler bard, who's not really interested in cutting people up into little bits.

 

[Galfridus]

Everyone tagged the viruoso as the "broken" class from Song & Silence, but it's actually pretty well balanced. I wouldn't have any problems allowing it in my game.

Of course, in my game, the "minstrel" has no levels of bard, and the former bard had no ranks in Perform...

 

[hong]

Everyone tagged the viruoso as the "broken" class from Song & Silence, but it's actually pretty well balanced. I wouldn't have any problems allowing it in my game.

Of course, in my game, the "minstrel" has no levels of bard, and the former bard had no ranks in Perform...

Good god. How can any self-respecting bard have no ranks in Perform? Even from a purely number-crunching perspective, did the player not even read the PHB or something?

 

[Christian]

Good god. How can any self-respecting bard have no ranks in Perform? Even from a purely number-crunching perspective, did the player not even read the PHB or something?

Role-playing, naturally. When I converted my favorite 1st Edition character, an 8th level ranger, to 3rd Edition, I made him a Ranger5/Fighter2/Bard1, with no ranks in Perform. His Bard level was for the knowledge and languageskills and for the bardic knowledge ability. So sue me.